Discussion:
The Terrorist Hope We Elect A "Coward" In Place Of A "Hero"
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HOD
2004-01-01 17:22:47 UTC
Permalink
TOUGH TIMES FOR TERRORISTS
By RALPH PETERS

December 31, 2003 -- EVEN if terrorists attack our homeland before the
stroke of midnight, 2003 will still have been a year of remarkable progress
on every front in the global War on Terror - and the greatest year for
freedom since the Soviet Union's collapse.
A decisive government in Washington, backed by the courage and common sense
of the American people, worked with allies around the world to carry the
fight to the terrorists' home ground. We continued to seize the strategic
initiative from the most implacable enemies America has ever faced.

Unless we choose to defeat ourselves, there is no chance of a final
terrorist victory.

In 2003, a new generation of enemies learned that America not only fights
ferociously, but follows through with tremendous residual power. In one of
history's great paradoxes, the provocation of 9/11 - intended to humble us -
unleashed our dormant might and rejuvenated the historical trend toward
liberty. The Twin Towers fell, but two years later America towers over the
world as never before.

The autumn of 2001 saw our initial counterattacks, while 2002 broadened the
international struggle and improved our domestic preparedness. But 2003 was
our breakthrough year - 12 months of successes that changed the course of
history.

Consider just a few of our achievements:

* We deposed and captured one of the world's worst tyrants, liberating 25
million people and demonstrating the inherent weakness of dictatorships.



In doing so, we destroyed a regime that had terrorized its own people and
the region. We drew an unmistakable line between America's reinvigorated
support for the liberation of the oppressed and "old Europe's" cynical
defense of the status quo.

* The stunning campaign that took our troops to Baghdad in just three weeks
made it clear to the world that no other state or combination of powers can
oppose us militarily and left us with the most experienced, combat-proven
forces of our time.

* Our president's courageous decision to target Saddam himself while sparing
innocent Iraqis upset the traditional rules of warfare, according to which
the draftees die while the ruler survives by signing a peace treaty.

Even though our attempted "decapitation strikes" failed, the message sent to
the world's dictators and sponsors of terror had far more force than Western
pundits yet realize. And our ultimate, humiliating capture of Saddam left
every remaining tyrant worried that he might topple next.

* As a result, Libya has opened its nuclear facilities for inspection, while
Iran hastened to strike a no-nukes deal with European governments anxious to
save face after their support of Saddam backfired disastrously. North Korea
has grown remarkably subdued. Syria treads cautiously. No tyrant wants G.I.
Joe as his houseguest.

* Even Saudi Arabia, the great incubator of terror, has become newly
cooperative, both because the terrorists - predictably - bit the many hands
that fed them and because Riyadh's relative importance has declined
precipitously with G.I. Jane in Baghdad.

* We've continued to kill and capture terrorists by the thousands,
dismantling their networks, seizing their assets and destroying their bases.
Terrorism won't disappear in our lifetimes, but its reach and capabilities
have been powerfully reduced.

* Our president had the sound instincts to realize that you can't treat the
deep cancer of terrorism with a topical salve. Apprehending terrorists isn't
enough. Meaningful treatment of this long-untended disease requires radical
surgery and great risk.

Those naive or disingenuous voices insisting that our liberation of Iraq was
a diversion from the War on Terror refuse to accept that the problem isn't a
few deadly fanatics but a suffocating civilization.

The administration's resolve to force change in the Middle East was as
crucial as it was courageous. We can't force Iraqis - or anyone else - to
succeed, but we've done what no others have dared: We've given tens of
millions of long-oppressed human beings a chance to live in freedom.

Much of this century will be shaped by what they make of that great chance.

* Most vitally for Americans, our government kept our country remarkably
safe. Terrorists yearned to strike us massively, to punish us for our
successes, while proving that they remain a potent force. Instead, our
federal, state and local authorities achieved new, if still imperfect,
levels of cooperation and blocked each terrorist attempt to wound us.

Politically motivated critics charge that the War on Terror has been a
failure, despite the obvious proof to the contrary: Our enemies have been
unable to harm our homeland. And while we will be struck again eventually -
no defense is perfect - every day of safety is a victory.

Two Thousand Three was a year that changed the world. For the better. The
reverberations will echo for decades.

Not every result will please us. We will not turn broken states into little
Americas overnight. Each culture has its own strengths and weaknesses. But
we're making a noble effort to help the wretched of the earth make their
societies better.

Perfection belongs to God. Progress is the best that humans can do.

Whether facing down Taliban remnants in Afghanistan or shaming the rest of
the world into providing more assistance to Africa's struggle against AIDS,
we've made an epochal break with the tradition of wealthy states embracing
easy short-term solutions instead of engaging long-term problems. Future
historians will regard 2003 as one of the dates when history made a great
turn, as a global 1776.

Yet 2004 is going to be a year of decision in the War on Terror. As our
presidential election approaches, the terrorists remaining at large will
sacrifice their last reserves in an effort to dislodge President Bush,
freedom's great crusader, from the White House.

The terrorists will seek to convince American voters that the War on Terror
is failing, paving the way for the electoral victory of a weakling and
allowing them to surge back into vacuums created by an American retreat.

Their last, desperate hope will be to hit us so hard that we elect a coward
in place of a hero.

I'm betting on American guts. And glory.

New York Post

Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad."
George Spelvin
2004-01-02 13:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-02 14:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White House.
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be re-elected!
:-))
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
George Spelvin
2004-01-03 14:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White House.
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be re-elected!
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he is
actually elected?
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Senators Were Told Iraqi Weapons Could Hit U.S.
By John McCarthy
Florida Today

Monday 15 December 2003

Nelson said claim made during classified briefing
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said Monday the Bush administration last year
told him and other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass
destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast
cities.

Nelson, D-Tallahassee, said about 75 senators got that news during
a classified briefing before last October's congressional vote
authorizing the use of force to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Nelson
voted in favor of using military force.

Nelson said he couldn't reveal who in the administration gave the
briefing.

The White House directed questions about the matter to the
Department of Defense. Defense officials had no comment on Nelson's
claim.

Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones.

"They have not found anything that resembles an UAV that has that
capability," Nelson said.

Nelson delivered the news during a half-hour conference call with
reporters Monday afternoon. The senator, who is on a seven-nation trade
mission to South America, was calling from an airport in Santiago,
Chile.

"That's news," said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a
Washington, D.C.-area military and intelligence think tank. "I had not
heard that that was the assessment of the intelligence community. I had
not heard that the Congress had been briefed on this."

Since the late 1990s, there have been several reports that Iraq was
converting a fleet of Czechoslovakian jet fighters into UAVs, as well as
testing smaller drones. And in a speech in Cincinnati last October, Bush
mentioned the vehicles. "We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of
using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States," the
president said.

Nelson, though, said the administration told senators Iraq had gone
beyond exploring and developed the means of hitting the U.S. with
weapons of mass destruction.

Nelson wouldn't say what the original source of the intelligence
was, but said it contradicted other intelligence reports senators had
received. He said he wants to find out why there was so much
disagreement about the weapons. "If that is an intelligence failure . .
. we better find that out so we don't have an intelligence failure in
the future."

Pike said any UAVs Iraq might have had would have had a range of
only several hundred kilometers, enough to hit targets in the Middle
East but not the United States. To hit targets on the East Coast, such
drones would have to be launched from a ship in Atlantic. He said it
wasn't out of the question for Iraq to have secretly acquired a tramp
steamer from which such vehicles could have been launched.

"The notion that someone could launch a missile from a ship off our
shores has been on Rummy's mind for years," Pike said, referring to
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

Sen. Bob Graham, who voted against using military force in Iraq,
didn't return phone calls concerning the briefing. Spokespersons for
Reps. Dave Weldon and Tom Feeney said neither congressman could say if
they had received similar briefings since they don't comment on
classified information.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-03 17:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White House.
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be re-elected!
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he is
actually elected?
Typing slow just for you, Butthead!

He is and will continue to be honest in my opinion! If you can prove
differently, now is the time to do so!
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Senators Were Told Iraqi Weapons Could Hit U.S.
By John McCarthy
Florida Today
Monday 15 December 2003
Nelson said claim made during classified briefing
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said Monday the Bush administration last year
told him and other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass
destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast
cities.
Nelson, D-Tallahassee, said about 75 senators got that news during
a classified briefing before last October's congressional vote
authorizing the use of force to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Nelson
voted in favor of using military force.
Nelson said he couldn't reveal who in the administration gave the
briefing.
The White House directed questions about the matter to the
Department of Defense. Defense officials had no comment on Nelson's
claim.
Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones.
"They have not found anything that resembles an UAV that has that
capability," Nelson said.
Nelson delivered the news during a half-hour conference call with
reporters Monday afternoon. The senator, who is on a seven-nation trade
mission to South America, was calling from an airport in Santiago,
Chile.
"That's news," said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a
Washington, D.C.-area military and intelligence think tank. "I had not
heard that that was the assessment of the intelligence community. I had
not heard that the Congress had been briefed on this."
Since the late 1990s, there have been several reports that Iraq was
converting a fleet of Czechoslovakian jet fighters into UAVs, as well as
testing smaller drones. And in a speech in Cincinnati last October, Bush
mentioned the vehicles. "We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of
using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States," the
president said.
Nelson, though, said the administration told senators Iraq had gone
beyond exploring and developed the means of hitting the U.S. with
weapons of mass destruction.
Nelson wouldn't say what the original source of the intelligence
was, but said it contradicted other intelligence reports senators had
received. He said he wants to find out why there was so much
disagreement about the weapons. "If that is an intelligence failure . .
. we better find that out so we don't have an intelligence failure in
the future."
Pike said any UAVs Iraq might have had would have had a range of
only several hundred kilometers, enough to hit targets in the Middle
East but not the United States. To hit targets on the East Coast, such
drones would have to be launched from a ship in Atlantic. He said it
wasn't out of the question for Iraq to have secretly acquired a tramp
steamer from which such vehicles could have been launched.
"The notion that someone could launch a missile from a ship off our
shores has been on Rummy's mind for years," Pike said, referring to
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
Sen. Bob Graham, who voted against using military force in Iraq,
didn't return phone calls concerning the briefing. Spokespersons for
Reps. Dave Weldon and Tom Feeney said neither congressman could say if
they had received similar briefings since they don't comment on
classified information.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
You must love the pain.................

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence
reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his
chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile
delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
including Al Qaeda members..."
---- Hillary Clinton, Oct 10, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
destruction...So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass
destruction
is real"
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

If you want more, I've got more. Beavis!
George Spelvin
2004-01-04 16:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White
House.
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be re-elected!
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he is
actually elected?
Typing slow just for you, Butthead!
He is and will continue to be honest in my opinion! If you can prove
differently, now is the time to do so!
Okay, but try to keep up. I'll type/paste at normal speed (I'll also
refrain from personal attacks because I don't need to insult you to
prove I'm right):

20 Lies About the War
Falsehoods ranging from exaggeration to plain untruth were used to make
the case
for war. More lies are being used in the aftermath. By Glen Rangwala and
Raymond
Whitaker
13 July 2003
1 Iraq was responsible for the 11 September attacks
A supposed meeting in Prague between Mohammed Atta, leader of the 11
September
hijackers, and an Iraqi intelligence official was the main basis for
this claim,
but Czech intelligence later conceded that the Iraqi's contact could not
have
been Atta. This did not stop the constant stream of assertions that Iraq
was
involved in 9/11, which was so successful that at one stage opinion
polls showed
that two-thirds of Americans believed the hand of Saddam Hussein was
behind the
attacks. Almost as many believed Iraqi hijackers were aboard the crashed
airliners; in fact there were none.
2 Iraq and al-Qa'ida were working together
Persistent claims by US and British leaders that Saddam and Osama bin
Laden were
in league with each other were contradicted by a leaked British Defence
Intelligence Staff report, which said there were no current links
between them.
Mr Bin Laden's "aims are in ideological conflict with present-day Iraq",
it
added.
Another strand to the claims was that al-Qa'ida members were being
sheltered in
Iraq, and had set up a poisons training camp. When US troops reached the
camp,
they found no chemical or biological traces.
3 Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa for a "reconstituted" nuclear
weapons
programme
The head of the CIA has now admitted that documents purporting to show
that Iraq
tried to import uranium from Niger in west Africa were forged, and that
the
claim should never have been in President Bush's State of the Union
address.
Britain sticks by the claim, insisting it has "separate intelligence".
The
Foreign Office conceded last week that this information is now "under
review".
4 Iraq was trying to import aluminium tubes to develop nuclear weapons
The US persistently alleged that Baghdad tried to buy high-strength
aluminum
tubes whose only use could be in gas centrifuges, needed to enrich
uranium for
nuclear weapons. Equally persistently, the International Atomic Energy
Agency
said the tubes were being used for artillery rockets. The head of the
IAEA,
Mohamed El Baradei, told the UN Security Council in January that the
tubes were
not even suitable for centrifuges.
5 Iraq still had vast stocks of chemical and biological weapons from the
first
Gulf War
Iraq possessed enough dangerous substances to kill the whole world, it
was
alleged more than once. It had pilotless aircraft which could be
smuggled into
the US and used to spray chemical and biological toxins. Experts pointed
out
that apart from mustard gas, Iraq never had the technology to produce
materials
with a shelf-life of 12 years, the time between the two wars. All such
agents
would have deteriorated to the point of uselessness years ago.
6 Iraq retained up to 20 missiles which could carry chemical or
biological
warheads, with a range which would threaten British forces in Cyprus
Apart from the fact that there has been no sign of these missiles since
the
invasion, Britain downplayed the risk of there being any such weapons in
Iraq
once the fighting began. It was also revealed that chemical protection
equipment
was removed from British bases in Cyprus last year, indicating that the
Government did not take its own claims seriously.
7 Saddam Hussein had the wherewithal to develop smallpox
This allegation was made by the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, in his
address
to the UN Security Council in February. The following month the UN said
there
was nothing to support it.
8 US and British claims were supported by the inspectors
According to Jack Straw, chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix "pointed
out" that
Iraq had 10,000 litres of anthrax. Tony Blair said Iraq's chemical,
biological
and "indeed the nuclear weapons programme" had been well documented by
the UN.
Mr Blix's reply? "This is not the same as saying there are weapons of
mass
destruction," he said last September. "If I had solid evidence that Iraq
retained weapons of mass destruction or were constructing such weapons,
I would
take it to the Security Council." In May this year he added: "I am
obviously
very interested in the question of whether or not there were weapons of
mass
destruction, and I am beginning to suspect there possibly were not."
9 Previous weapons inspections had failed
Tony Blair told this newspaper in March that the UN had "tried
unsuccessfully
for 12 years to get Saddam to disarm peacefully". But in 1999 a Security
Council
panel concluded: "Although important elements still have to be resolved,
the
bulk of Iraq's proscribed weapons programmes has been eliminated." Mr
Blair also
claimed UN inspectors "found no trace at all of Saddam's offensive
biological
weapons programme" until his son-in-law defected. In fact the UN got the
regime
to admit to its biological weapons programme more than a month before
the
defection.
10 Iraq was obstructing the inspectors
Britain's February "dodgy dossier" claimed inspectors' escorts were
"trained to
start long arguments" with other Iraqi officials while evidence was
being
hidden, and inspectors' journeys were monitored and notified ahead to
remove
surprise. Dr Blix said in February that the UN had conducted more than
400
inspections, all without notice, covering more than 300 sites. "We note
that
access to sites has so far been without problems," he said. : "In no
case have
we seen convincing evidence that the Iraqi side knew that the inspectors
were
coming."
11 Iraq could deploy its weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes
This now-notorious claim was based on a single source, said to be a
serving
Iraqi military officer. This individual has not been produced since the
war, but
in any case Tony Blair contradicted the claim in April. He said Iraq had
begun
to conceal its weapons in May 2002, which meant that they could not have
been
used within 45 minutes.
12 The "dodgy dossier"
Mr Blair told the Commons in February, when the dossier was issued: "We
issued
further intelligence over the weekend about the infrastructure of
concealment.
It is obviously difficult when we publish intelligence reports." It soon
emerged
that most of it was cribbed without attribution from three articles on
the
internet. Last month Alastair Campbell took responsibility for the
plagiarism
committed by his staff, but stood by the dossier's accuracy, even though
it
confused two Iraqi intelligence organisations, and said one moved to new
headquarters in 1990, two years before it was created.
13 War would be easy
Public fears of war in the US and Britain were assuaged by assurances
that
oppressed Iraqis would welcome the invading forces; that "demolishing
Saddam
Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk", in
the words
of Kenneth Adelman, a senior Pentagon official in two previous
Republican
administrations. Resistance was patchy, but stiffer than expected,
mainly from
irregular forces fighting in civilian clothes. "This wasn't the enemy we
war-gamed against," one general complained.
14 Umm Qasr
The fall of Iraq's southernmost city and only port was announced several
times
before Anglo-American forces gained full control - by Defence Secretary
Donald
Rumsfeld, among others, and by Admiral Michael Boyce, chief of Britain's
defence
staff. "Umm Qasr has been overwhelmed by the US Marines and is now in
coalition
hands," the Admiral announced, somewhat prematurely.
15 Basra rebellion
Claims that the Shia Muslim population of Basra, Iraq's second city, had
risen
against their oppressors were repeated for days, long after it became
clear to
those there that this was little more than wishful thinking. The defeat
of a
supposed breakout by Iraqi armour was also announced by military
spokesman in no
position to know the truth.
16 The "rescue" of Private Jessica Lynch
Private Jessica Lynch's "rescue" from a hospital in Nasiriya by American
special
forces was presented as the major "feel-good" story of the war. She was
said to
have fired back at Iraqi troops until her ammunition ran out, and was
taken to
hospital suffering bullet and stab wounds. It has since emerged that all
her
injuries were sustained in a vehicle crash, which left her incapable of
firing
any shot. Local medical staff had tried to return her to the Americans
after
Iraqi forces pulled out of the hospital, but the doctors had to turn
back when
US troops opened fire on them. The special forces encountered no
resistance, but
made sure the whole episode was filmed.
17 Troops would face chemical and biological weapons
As US forces approached Baghdad, there was a rash of reports that they
would
cross a "red line", within which Republican Guard units were authorised
to use
chemical weapons. But Lieutenant General James Conway, the leading US
marine
general in Iraq, conceded afterwards that intelligence reports that
chemical
weapons had been deployed around Baghdad before the war were wrong.
"It was a surprise to me ... that we have not uncovered weapons ... in
some of
the forward dispersal sites," he said. "We've been to virtually every
ammunition
supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply
not
there. We were simply wrong. Whether or not we're wrong at the national
level, I
think still very much remains to be seen."
18 Interrogation of scientists would yield the location of WMD
"I have got absolutely no doubt that those weapons are there ... once we
have
the co-operation of the scientists and the experts, I have got no doubt
that we
will find them," Tony Blair said in April. Numerous similar assurances
were
issued by other leading figures, who said interrogations would provide
the WMD
discoveries that searches had failed to supply. But almost all Iraq's
leading
scientists are in custody, and claims that lingering fears of Saddam
Hussein are
stilling their tongues are beginning to wear thin.
19 Iraq's oil money would go to Iraqis
Tony Blair complained in Parliament that "people falsely claim that we
want to
seize" Iraq's oil revenues, adding that they should be put in a trust
fund for
the Iraqi people administered through the UN. Britain should seek a
Security
Council resolution that would affirm "the use of all oil revenues for
the
benefit of the Iraqi people".
Instead Britain co-sponsored a Security Council resolution that gave the
US and
UK control over Iraq's oil revenues. There is no UN-administered trust
fund.
Far from "all oil revenues" being used for the Iraqi people, the
resolution
continues to make deductions from Iraq's oil earnings to pay in
compensation for
the invasion of Kuwait in 1990.
20 WMD were found
After repeated false sightings, both Tony Blair and George Bush
proclaimed on 30
May that two trailers found in Iraq were mobile biological laboratories.
"We
have already found two trailers, both of which we believe were used for
the
production of biological weapons," said Mr Blair. Mr Bush went further:
"Those
who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned
weapons -
they're wrong. We found them." It is now almost certain that the
vehicles were
for the production of hydrogen for weather balloons, just as the Iraqis
claimed
- and that they were exported by Britain.
___________________________________________
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the
materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve
agent.”
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq has 500 tons of chemical weapons:
- Sarin gas
- Mustard gas
- VX Nerve agent

Zero Chemical Weapons Found
Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

“U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000
munitions capable of delivering chemical agents.”
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq has 30,000 weapons capable of dumping chemical weapons on people

Zero Munitions Found
Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq

“We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing
fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to
disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq has a growing fleet of planes capable of dispersing chemical
weapons almost anywhere in the world

Zero Aerial Vehicles Found
Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological
weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and
statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and
protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida."
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaeda
And implied that Iraq was somehow behind 9/11

Zero Al Qaeda Connection
To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any
other known terrorist organizations have been revealed.
(besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to
the US)

"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to
purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons
production."
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq has attempted to purchase metal tubes suitable for nuclear weapons
production

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) as well as dozens of
leading scientists declared said tubes unsuitable for nuclear weapons
production -- months before the war.

"Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at
[past nuclear] sites."
Bush speech to the nation – 10/7/2002

Iraq is rebuilding nuclear facilities at former sites.

Two months of inspections at these former Iraqi nuclear sites found zero
evidence of prohibited nuclear activities there IAEA report to UN
Security Council – 1/27/2003

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Iraq recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa
The documents implied were known at the time by Bush to be forged and
not credible.

"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear
weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney – “Meet the Press” 3/16/2003

Iraq has Nuclear Weapons for a fact

“The IAEA had found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival
of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq."
IAEA report to UN Security Council – 3/7/2003

"We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let
them in."
Bush Press Conference 7/14/2003

Iraq’s Saddam Hussein refused to allow UN inspectors into Iraq

UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations
from December 2002 into March 2003

____________________________________________________________-
The Other Lies of George Bush
by DAVID CORN
[from the October 13, 2003 issue]
This article was adapted from the new book, The Lies of George W. Bush:
Mastering the Politics of Deception (Crown Publishers).
George W. Bush is a liar. He has lied large and small, directly and by
omission.
His Iraq lies have loomed largest. In the run-up to the invasion, Bush
based his
case for war on a variety of unfounded claims that extended far beyond
his
controversial uranium-from-Niger assertion. He maintained that Saddam
Hussein
possessed "a massive stockpile" of unconventional weapons and was
directly
"dealing" with Al Qaeda--two suppositions unsupported then (or now) by
the
available evidence. He said the International Atomic Energy Agency had
produced
a report in 1998 noting that Iraq was six months from developing a
nuclear
weapon; no such report existed (and the IAEA had actually reported then
that
there was no indication Iraq had the ability to produce weapons-grade
material).
Bush asserted that Iraq was "harboring a terrorist network, headed by a
senior
Al Qaeda terrorist planner"; US intelligence officials told reporters
this
terrorist was operating ouside of Al Qaeda control. And two days before
launching the war, Bush said, "Intelligence gathered by this and other
governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess
and
conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." Yet former deputy
CIA
director Richard Kerr, who is conducting a review of the prewar
intelligence,
has said that intelligence was full of qualifiers and caveats, and based
on
circumstantial and inferential evidence. That is, it was not no-doubt
stuff. And
after the major fighting was done, Bush declared, "We found the weapons
of mass
destruction." But he could only point to two tractor-trailers that the
CIA and
the Defense Intelligence Agency had concluded were mobile bioweapons
labs. Other
experts--including the DIA's own engineering experts--disagreed with
this
finding.
But Bush's truth-defying crusade for war did not mark a shift for him.
Throughout his campaign for the presidency and his years in the White
House,
Bush has mugged the truth in many other areas to advance his agenda.
Lying has
been one of the essential tools of his presidency. To call the
forty-third
President of the United States a prevaricator is not an exercise of
opinion, not
an inflammatory talk-radio device. Rather, it is backed up by an
all-too-extensive record of self-serving falsifications. While
politicians are
often derided as liars, this charge should be particularly stinging for
Bush.
During the campaign of 2000, he pitched himself as a candidate who could
"restore" honor and integrity to an Oval Office stained by the misdeeds
and
falsehoods of his predecessor. To brand Bush a liar is to negate what he
and his
supporters declared was his most basic and most important qualification
for the
job.
His claims about the war in Iraq have led more of his foes and more
pundits to
accuse him of lying to the public. The list of his misrepresentations,
though,
is far longer than the lengthy list of dubious statements Bush
employed--and
keeps on employing--to justify his invasion and occupation of Iraq. Here
then is
a partial--a quite partial--account of the other lies of George W. Bush.
Tax Cuts
Bush's crusade for tax cuts is the domestic policy matter that has
spawned the
most misrepresentations from his camp. On the 2000 campaign trail, he
sold his
success as a "tax-cutting person" by hailing cuts he passed in Texas
while
governor. But Bush did not tell the full story of his 1997 tax plan. His
proposal called for cutting property taxes. But what he didn't mention
is that
it also included an attempt to boost the sales tax and to implement a
new
business tax. Nor did he note that his full package had not been
accepted by the
state legislature. Instead, the lawmakers passed a $1 billion reduction
in
property taxes. And these tax cuts turned out to be a sham. After they
kicked
in, school districts across the state boosted local tax rates to
compensate for
the loss of revenue. A 1999 Dallas Morning News analysis found that
"many
[taxpayers] are still paying as much as they did in 1997, or more."
Republican
Lieutenant Governor Rick Perry called the cuts "rather illusory."
One of Bush's biggest tax-cut whoppers came when he stated, during the
presidential campaign, "The vast majority of my [proposed] tax cuts go
to the
bottom end of the spectrum." That estimate was wildly at odds with
analyses of
where the money would really go. A report by Citizens for Tax Justice, a
liberal
outfit that specializes in distribution analysis, figured that 42.6
percent of
Bush's $1.6 trillion tax package would end up in the pockets of the top
1
percent of earners. The lowest 60 percent would net 12.6 percent. The
New York
Times, the Los Angeles Times, ABC News and NBC News all reported that
Bush's
package produced the results CTJ calculated.
To deal with the criticism that his plan was a boon for millionaires,
Bush
devised an imaginary friend--a mythical single waitress who was
supporting two
children on an income of $22,000, and he talked about her often. He said
he
wanted to remove the tax-code barriers that kept this waitress from
reaching the
middle class, and he insisted that if his tax cuts were passed, "she
will pay no
income taxes at all." But when Time asked the accounting firm of
Deloitte &
Touche to analyze precisely how Bush's waitress-mom would be affected by
his tax
package, the firm reported that she would not see any benefit because
she
already had no income-tax liability.
As he sold his tax cuts from the White House, Bush maintained in 2001
that with
his plan, "the greatest percentage of tax relief goes to the people at
the
bottom end of the ladder." This was trickery--technically true only
because
low-income earners pay so little income tax to begin with. As the Center
on
Budget and Policy Priorities put it, "a two-parent family of four with
income of
$26,000 would indeed have its income taxes eliminated under the Bush
plan, which
is being portrayed as a 100 percent reduction in taxes." But here was
the punch
line: The family owed only $20 in income taxes under the existing law.
Its
overall tax bill (including payroll and excise taxes), though, was
$2,500. So
that twenty bucks represented less than 1 percent of its tax burden.
Bush's
"greatest percentage" line was meaningless in the real world, where
people paid
their bills with money, not percentages.
Bush also claimed his tax plan--by eliminating the estate tax, at a cost
of $300
billion--would "keep family farms in the family." But, as the New York
Times
reported, farm-industry experts could not point to a single case of a
family
losing a farm because of estate taxes. Asked about this, White House
press
secretary Ari Fleischer said, "If you abolish the death tax, people
won't have
to hire all those planners to help them keep the land that's rightfully
theirs."
Caught in a $300 billion lie, the White House was now saying the reason
to
abolish the tax--a move that would be a blessing to the richest 2
percent of
Americans--was to spare farmers the pain in the ass of estate planning.
Bush's
lies did not hinder him. They helped him win the first tax-cut
fight--and, then,
the tax-cut battle of 2003. When his second set of supersized tax cuts
was
assailed for being tilted toward the rich, he claimed, "Ninety-two
million
Americans will keep an average of $1,083 more of their own money." The
Tax
Policy Center of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute found
that,
contrary to Bush's assertion, nearly 80 percent of tax filers would
receive less
than $1,083, and almost half would pocket less than $100. The truly
average
taxpayers--those in the middle of the income range--would receive $265.
Bush was
using the word "average" in a flimflam fashion. To concoct the
misleading $1,083
figure, the Administration took the large dollar amounts high-income
taxpayers
would receive and added that to the modest, small or nonexistent
reductions
other taxpayers would get--and then used this total to calculate an
average
gain. His claim was akin to saying that if a street had nine households
led by
unemployed individuals but one with an earner making a million dollars,
the
average income of the families on the block would be $100,000. The
radical Wall
Street Journal reported, "Overall, the gains from the taxes are weighted
toward
upper-income taxpayers."
The Environment
One of Bush's first PR slip-ups as President came when his EPA announced
that it
would withdraw a new standard for arsenic in drinking water that had
been
developed during the Clinton years. Bush defended this move by claiming
that the
new standard had been irresponsibly rushed through: "At the very last
minute my
predecessor made a decision, and we pulled back his decision so that we
can make
a decision based upon sound science and what's realistic." And his EPA
administrator, Christine Todd Whitman, said the standard had not been
based on
the "best available science." This was a harsh charge. And untrue.
The new arsenic standard was no quickie job unattached to reasonable
scientific
findings. The EPA had worked for a decade on establishing the new,
10-parts-per-billion standard. Congress had directed the agency to
establish a
new standard, and it had authorized $2.5 million a year for studies from
1997
through 2000. A 1999 study by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) had
concluded that the existing 50-ppb standard "could easily" result in a
1-in-100
cancer risk and had recommended that acceptable levels be lowered "as
promptly
as possible." EPA policy-makers had thought that a 3-ppb standard would
have
been justified by the science, yet they took cost considerations into
account
and went for the less stringent 10 ppb.
Bush's arsenic move appeared to have been based upon a political
calculation--even though Bush, as a candidate, had said he would not
decide key
policy matters on the basis of politics. But in his book The Right Man,
David
Frum, a former Bush economic speechwriter, reported that Karl Rove,
Bush's chief
political adviser, had "pressed for reversal" of the arsenic standard in
an
attempt to win votes in New Mexico, one of a few states that have high
naturally
occurring levels of arsenic and that would face higher costs in meeting
the new
standard.
Several months after the EPA suspended the standard, a new NAS study
concluded
that the 10-ppb standard was indeed scientifically justified and
possibly not
tight enough. After that, the Administration decided that the original
10 ppb
was exactly the right level for a workable rule, even though the latest
in "best
available science" now suggested that the 10-ppb level might not
adequately
safeguard water drinkers.
The arsenic screw-up was one of the few lies for which Bush took a hit.
On the
matter of global warming, he managed to lie his way through a
controversy more
deftly. Months into his presidency, Bush declared that he was opposed to
the
Kyoto Protocol, the 1997 global warming accord. To defend his retreat
from the
treaty, he cited "the incomplete state of scientific knowledge." This
was a
misleading argument, for the scientific consensus was rather firm. The
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), an international body
of
thousands of scientists assembled by the UN and the World Meteorological
Organization, held that global temperatures were dramatically on the
rise and
that this increase was, to an unspecified degree, a result of
human-induced
emissions.
In early June 2001 the NAS released a report Bush had requested, and it
concluded global warming was under way and "most likely due to human
activities." Rather than accept the analysis it had commissioned, the
Bush White
House countered with duplicity. Press secretary Fleischer maintained
that the
report "concludes that the Earth is warming. But it is inconclusive on
why--whether it's man-made causes or whether it's natural causes." That
was not
spinning. That was prevaricating. The study blamed "human activities"
while
noting that "natural variability" might be a contributing factor too.
Still, the Bush White House wanted to make it seem as if Bush did take
the issue
seriously. So on June 11, he delivered a speech on global warming and
pledged to
craft an alternative to Kyoto that would "reduce" emissions. The
following
February he unveiled his plan. "Our immediate goal," Bush said, "is to
reduce
America's greenhouse-gas emissions relative to the size of our economy."
Relative to the size of our economy? This was a ruse. Since the US
economy is
generally growing, this meant emissions could continue to rise, as long
as the
rate of increase was below the rate of economic growth. The other
industrialized
nations, with the Kyoto accord, were calling for reductions below 1990
levels.
Bush was pushing for slower increases above 2000 levels. Bush's promise
to lower
emissions had turned out to be no more than hot air.
September 11
As many Americans and others yearned to make sense of the evil attacks
of
September 11, Bush elected to share with the public a deceptively
simplistic
explanation of this catastrophe. Repeatedly, he said that the United
States had
been struck because of its love of freedom. "America was targeted for
attack,"
he maintained, "because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and
opportunity
in the world." This was shallow analysis, a comic-book interpretation of
the
event that covered up complexities and denied Americans information
crucial for
developing a full understanding of the attacks. In the view Bush
furnished,
Osama bin Laden was a would-be conqueror of the world, a man motivated
solely by
irrational evil, who killed for the purpose of destroying freedom.
But as the State Department's own terrorism experts--as well as
nongovernment
experts--noted, bin Laden was motivated by a specific geostrategic and
theological aim: to chase the United States out of the Middle East in
order to
ease the way for a fundamentalist takeover of the region. Peter Bergen,
a former
CNN producer and the first journalist to arrange a television interview
with bin
Laden, observes in his book Holy War, Inc., "What [bin Laden] condemns
the
United States for is simple: its policies in the Middle East." Rather
than
acknowledge the realities of bin Laden's war on America, Bush attempted
to
create and perpetuate a war-on-freedom myth.
In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush was disingenuous on other fronts. Days
after the
attack, he asserted, "No one could have conceivably imagined suicide
bombers
burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly
their
aircraft--fly US aircraft--into buildings full of innocent people." His
aides
echoed this sentiment for months. They were wrong. Such a scenario had
been
imagined and feared by terrorism experts. And plots of this sort had
previously
been uncovered and thwarted by security services in other nations--in
operations
known to US officials. According to the 9/11 inquiry conducted by the
House and
Senate intelligence committees, the US intelligence establishment had
received
numerous reports that bin Laden and other terrorists were interested in
mounting
9/11-like strikes against the United States.
Fourteen months after the attack, Bush said, "We must uncover every
detail and
learn every lesson of September the 11th." But his actions belied this
rhetoric.
His White House refused to turn over information to the intelligence
committees
about a pre-9/11 intelligence briefing he had had seen, and the Bush
Administration would not allow the committees to tell the public what
intelligence warnings Bush had received before September 11. More
famously, Bush
would not declassify the twenty-seven-page portion of the committees'
final
report that concerned connections between the 9/11 hijackers and Saudi
Arabia.
And following September 11, Bush repeatedly maintained that his
Administration
was doing everything possible to secure the nation. But that was not
true. The
Administration did not move--and has not moved--quickly to address
gaping
security concerns, including vulnerabilities at chemical plants and
ports and a
huge shortfall in resources for first responders [see Corn, "Homeland
Insecurity," September 22].
It did not start with Iraq. Bush has been lying throughout the
presidency. He
claimed he had not gotten to know disgraced Enron chief Ken Lay until
after the
1994 Texas gubernatorial election. But Lay had been one of Bush's larger
contributors during that election and had--according to Lay
himself--been
friends with Bush for years before it. In June 2001, Bush said, "We're
not going
to deploy a [missile defense] system that doesn't work." But then he
ordered the
deployment of a system that was not yet operational. (A June 2003
General
Accounting Office study noted, "Testing to date has provided only
limited data
for determining whether the system will work as intended.") His White
House
claimed that it was necessary to drill for oil in the Arctic National
Wildlife
Refuge to "secure America's energy needs." But the US Geological Survey
noted
that the amount of oil that might be found there would cover up to
slightly more
than two years' worth of oil consumption. Such a supply would hardly
"secure"
the nation's needs.
Speaking for his boss, Fleischer in 2002 said, "the President does, of
course,
believe that younger workers...are going to receive no money for their
Social
Security taxes." No money? That was not so. A projected crunch will hit
in four
decades or so. But even when this happens, the system will be able to
pay an
estimated 70 percent of benefits--which is somewhat more than "no
money." When
Bush in August 2001 announced he would permit federal funding of
stem-cell
research only for projects that used existing stem-cell lines--in a move
to
placate social conservatives, who opposed this sort of research--he said
that
there were sixty existing lines, and he asserted that his decision
"allows us to
explore the promise and potential of stem-cell research." Yet at the
time--according to scientific experts in the field and various media
reports--there were closer to ten available lines, not nearly enough to
support
a promising research effort.
Does Bush believe his own untruths? Did he truly consider a WMD-loaded
Saddam
Hussein an imminent threat to the United States? Or was he knowingly
employing
dramatic license because he wanted war for other reasons? Did he really
think
the average middle-class taxpayer would receive $1,083 from his second
tax-cut
plan? Or did he realize this was a fuzzy number cooked up to make the
package
seem a better deal than it was for middle- and low-income workers? Did
he
believe there were enough stem-cell lines to support robust research? Or
did he
know he had exaggerated the number of lines in order to avoid a
politically
tough decision?
It's hard to tell. Bush's public statements do suggest he is a binary
thinker
who views the world in black-and-white terms. You're either for freedom
or
against it. With the United States or not. Tax cuts are good--always.
The more
tax cuts the better--always. He's impatient with nuances. Asked in 1999
to name
something he wasn't good at, Bush replied, "Sitting down and reading a
500-page
book on public policy or philosophy or something." Bush likes life to be
clear-cut. And perhaps that causes him to either bend the truth or see
(and
promote) a bent version of reality. Observers can debate whether Bush
considers
his embellishments and misrepresentations to be the honest-to-God truth
or
whether he cynically hurls falsehoods to con the public. But believer or
deceiver--the result is the same.
With his misrepresentations and false assertions, Bush has dramatically
changed
the nation and the world. Relying on deceptions, he turned the United
States
into an occupying power. Using lies, he pushed through tax cuts that
will
profoundly reshape the US budget for years to come, most likely insuring
a long
stretch of deficits that will make it difficult, perhaps impossible, for
the
federal government to fund existing programs or contemplate new ones.
Does Bush lie more than his predecessors, more than his political
opponents?
That's irrelevant. He's guiding the nation during difficult and perhaps
perilous
times, in which a credible President is much in need. Prosperity or
economic
decline? War or peace? Security or fear? This country has a lot to deal
with.
Lies from the White House poison the debates that must occur if
Americans are
going to confront and overcome the challenges of this century at home
and
abroad.
Presidential lying, in fact, threatens the country. To render informed
and wise
choices about the crucial and complicated controversies of the day,
people need
truthful information. The President is generally in a position to define
and
dominate a debate more than other political players. And a lie from the
White
House--or a fib or a misrepresentation or a fudged number--can go a long
way
toward distorting the national discussion.
Bush campaigned for the presidency as the fellow who would bring honesty
back to
the White House. During his first full day on the job, while swearing in
his
White House staff, he reminded his cadre, "On a mantelpiece in this
great house
is inscribed the prayer of John Adams, that only the wise and honest may
rule
under this roof." But Adams's prayer would once more go unanswered.
There has
been no restoration of integrity. Bush's promise was a lie. The future
of the
United States remains in the hands of a dishonest man.

Got lots more. Let me know if you need any help understanding.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-04 20:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White
House.
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be re-elected!
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he is
actually elected?
Typing slow just for you, Butthead!
He is and will continue to be honest in my opinion! If you can prove
differently, now is the time to do so!
Okay, but try to keep up. I'll type/paste at normal speed (I'll also
refrain from personal attacks because I don't need to insult you to
20 Lies About the War
Cut for lack of relevance!

Even you can't be slow enough to believe that the crap you posted proved
anything other than the fact that you are a typical 'wild-eyed' liberal
fanatic with zero regard for the truth. You have accepted the liberal mantra
that says if you repeat a lie enough times, sooner or later someone is bound
to believe you.....

next! :-))
George Spelvin
2004-01-05 18:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up
with
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in
the
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White
House.
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be
re-elected!
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he
is
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
actually elected?
Typing slow just for you, Butthead!
He is and will continue to be honest in my opinion! If you can prove
differently, now is the time to do so!
Okay, but try to keep up. I'll type/paste at normal speed (I'll also
refrain from personal attacks because I don't need to insult you to
20 Lies About the War
Cut for lack of relevance!
You asked for lies, I gave you lies. How craven to simply CUT what you
don't want to read. LMAO! Pussy!
Post by HOD
Even you can't be slow enough to believe that the crap you posted proved
anything other than the fact that you are a typical 'wild-eyed' liberal
fanatic with zero regard for the truth. You have accepted the liberal mantra
that says if you repeat a lie enough times, sooner or later someone is bound
to believe you.....
next! :-))
It's already been shown and you've already been refuted. You lose.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-05 23:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up
with
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in
the
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
White House.
Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the White
House.
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
No question your dream will come true.....Bush is sure to be
re-elected!
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
So you think he will suddenly become honest and show integrity if he
is
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
actually elected?
Typing slow just for you, Butthead!
He is and will continue to be honest in my opinion! If you can prove
differently, now is the time to do so!
Okay, but try to keep up. I'll type/paste at normal speed (I'll also
refrain from personal attacks because I don't need to insult you to
20 Lies About the War
Cut for lack of relevance!
You asked for lies, I gave you lies. How craven to simply CUT what you
don't want to read. LMAO! Pussy!
Just curious, your 'sign off' is a bit confusing.... are you actually
laughing your 'ass' off or is it your 'pussy' that you boast of 'laughing
off'?
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Even you can't be slow enough to believe that the crap you posted proved
anything other than the fact that you are a typical 'wild-eyed' liberal
fanatic with zero regard for the truth. You have accepted the liberal mantra
that says if you repeat a lie enough times, sooner or later someone is bound
to believe you.....
next! :-))
It's already been shown and you've already been refuted. You lose.
You are that slow...... amazing!
Somewhere these slugs must be reproducing...... :-))
Ken [NY)
2004-01-03 18:11:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 08:54:50 -0600, George Spelvin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Senators Were Told Iraqi Weapons Could Hit U.S.
By John McCarthy
Florida Today
Monday 15 December 2003
Nelson said claim made during classified briefing
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said Monday the Bush administration last year
told him and other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass
destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast
cities.
If that is what he was told, the administration guy who told
it was correct. All they needed to deliver them to the east coast of
the US was a tramp steamer and hide the weapons in the bilges. A week
later, the weapons are on Long Island, pointing west.

Cordially,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction
because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

spammers can send mail to ***@ftc.gov
George Spelvin
2004-01-04 16:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken [NY)
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 08:54:50 -0600, George Spelvin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Senators Were Told Iraqi Weapons Could Hit U.S.
By John McCarthy
Florida Today
Monday 15 December 2003
Nelson said claim made during classified briefing
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said Monday the Bush administration last year
told him and other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass
destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast
cities.
If that is what he was told, the administration guy who told
it was correct. All they needed to deliver them to the east coast of
the US was a tramp steamer and hide the weapons in the bilges. A week
later, the weapons are on Long Island, pointing west.
Yet, as the article pointed out and you flatly ignored, they were told
the delivery means were UAVs:

"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."

Try to have a little dignity Ken and stop snipping and mischaracterizing
what was written.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-04 20:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by Ken [NY)
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 08:54:50 -0600, George Spelvin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
members It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Senators Were Told Iraqi Weapons Could Hit U.S.
By John McCarthy
Florida Today
Monday 15 December 2003
Nelson said claim made during classified briefing
U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said Monday the Bush administration last year
told him and other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass
destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast
cities.
If that is what he was told, the administration guy who told
it was correct. All they needed to deliver them to the east coast of
the US was a tramp steamer and hide the weapons in the bilges. A week
later, the weapons are on Long Island, pointing west.
Yet, as the article pointed out and you flatly ignored, they were told
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."
Try to have a little dignity Ken and stop snipping and mischaracterizing
what was written.
and you do the same and set an example....... :-))
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam
Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available
means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already
used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build
more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons,
and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John
Edwards, (member of the United States Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence)
Oct 10, 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, (member of the United States
Senate
Select Committee on Intelligence) Sept 19, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to
enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that
difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, (Chairman of the United States
Senate
Select Committee on Intelligence) Oct 10, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence
reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet
achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible
events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American
security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in
1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a
warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those
trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of
2003
DDB
2004-01-02 17:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Hey you make some good points now let's look at them individually and try to
determine if we trade up or not:



1. It is a proven fact that Clinton left the country to avoid the draft and
it is pure fiction that Bush was AWOL, the fact is you can not be AWOL in
the National Guard nor the Reserve unless your company has been called to
active duty and you fail to show up so once again you failed to make your
case as have hundreds if not thousand of other lying radical liberals since
Bush took office. So from a military background stand point Bush wins this
one!



2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11, the fact
paint a different picture though. The first world trade center attack was
conducted in 1993 shortly after Clinton took office for his first 4 year
term. Since that time it has been know that Al Qaeda launched those attacks
under Bin Laden's leadership and many, many other terrorist attacks between
then and 9/11 and Clinton did nothing, even though a number of nations
offered to hand Osama over to him no less than three times. So not only is
Clinton at fault for 9/11 he is also complicit in the death of numerous
embassy employees and the shipmates on the USS Cole. So once again Bush wins
another point.



3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a booming
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level it appears to be true however
after much closer scrutiny we find the following: the economic expansion was
based upon a false dotcom industry, the border rooms of major corporations
began lying and cheating on their annual reports and the economic rece3ssion
started before Clinton left office. President Bush inherited a recession,
followed closely by numerous corporate scandals, followed by the attacks of
9/11(an act by the way, we have already established was caused by Clinton's
inaction). President Bush has now returned the economy to some semblance of
growth and he did it by reducing taxes, developing corporate reporting
requirement with checks and balances and it is beginning to work. So once
again score one for Bush for rebuilding the economy that Clinton rode into
the dirt during his entire presidency.



4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war under
false pretences. Again let's look at the surrounding Yugoslavia. The ruler
being used against Bush was that he failed to gain international support
form the UN for the war in Iraq, well Clinton didn't even have the nerve to
take the question to the UN instead going around them and to NATO, which
make his war illegal given the comparison and more egregious since he didn't
even try to build consensus with UN allies. The other half of the charge is
that Clinton never took us into war using false pretences as Bush did, once
that is not completely true, given that the reason for the war in Yugoslavia
was to stop the genocide that was going on within the country. To this day
none of the mass graves have ever been found and it appear that the rank and
file Democrats don't care but are unwilling to give the current president
the same amount of time to find WMD's. Let's also not forget the issues of
the refugees along the borders of Yugoslavia and Georgia. Who can forget the
number of refugees suffering in the cold of winter without all because of
Melosovitch(sp), well as with everything in the Clinton administration all
is not as it appears. Clinton and his allies knew of operation horse shoe
for months before they went to war. This operation was designed to push
hundred of thousand of refugees before it into the neighboring countries
e.g. Georgia and other border nation, so the question has to be if you know
that hundreds of thousands of refugees are headed you way and you knew for a
t least six. Why wouldn't you prepare for them? Because Clinton knew the
value of televising the suffering of hundreds of thousand of refugees and
knew that this would help turn US opinion in the direction he wanted to go
in. Now as for Bush and weapons of mass destruction, every member nations of
the UN knew or thought they knew that Saddam had not disarmed and still had
significant WMD's and had failed to disarm after 12 years. The proof of this
is that they all helped ratify resolution 1441. Once again score one for
Bush because he at least tried to build consensus at the UN which Clinton
never attempted and for putting together the third largest coalition in
world history, something Clinton couldn't even do in Yugoslavia.





Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
George Spelvin
2004-01-03 15:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Hey you make some good points now let's look at them individually and try to
1. It is a proven fact that Clinton left the country to avoid the draft and
it is pure fiction that Bush was AWOL,
1-year gap in Bush's Guard duty

No record of airman at drills from 1972-73

By Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff, 5/23/2000

AUSTIN, Texas - After George W. Bush became governor in 1995, the
Houston Air National Guard unit he had served with
during the Vietnam War years honored him for his work, noting that he
flew an F-102 fighter-interceptor until his discharge in
October 1973.

And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,''
recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed
in June 1970. ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several
years,'' the governor wrote.

But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records,
obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of
military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much
of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a
full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills
required of part-time guardsmen.

Bush, who declined to be interviewed on the issue, said through a
spokesman that he has ''some recollection'' of attending drills
that year, but maybe not consistently.

From May to November 1972, Bush was in Alabama working in a US Senate
campaign, and was required to attend drills at
an Air National Guard unit in Montgomery. But there is no evidence in
his record that he did so. And William Turnipseed, the
retired general who commanded the Alabama unit back then, said in an
interview last week that Bush never appeared for duty
there.

After the election, Bush returned to Houston. But seven months later, in
May 1973, his two superior officers at Ellington Air
Force Base could not perform his annual evaluation covering the year
from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973 because, they
wrote, ''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period
of this report.''

Bush, they mistakenly concluded, had been training with the Alabama unit
for the previous 12 months. Both men have since
died. But Ellington's top personnel officer at the time, retired Colonel
Rufus G. Martin, said he had believed that First
Lieutenant Bush completed his final year of service in Alabama.

A Bush spokesman, Dan Bartlett, said after talking with the governor
that Bush recalls performing some duty in Alabama and
''recalls coming back to Houston and doing [Guard] duty, though he does
not recall if it was on a consistent basis.''

Noting that Bush, by that point, was no longer flying, Bartlett added,
''It's possible his presence and role became secondary.''

Last night, Mindy Tucker, another Bush campaign aide, asserted that the
governor ''fulfilled all of his requirements in the
Guard.'' If he missed any drills, she said, he made them up later on.

Under Air National Guard rules at the time, guardsmen who missed duty
could be reported to their Selective Service Board
and inducted into the Army as draftees.

If Bush's interest in Guard duty waned, as spokesman Bartlett hinted,
the records and former Guard officials suggest that Bush's
unit was lackadaisical in holding him to his commitment. Many states,
Texas among them, had a record during the Vietnam War
of providing a haven in the Guard for the sons of the well-connected,
and a tendency to excuse shirking by those with political
connections.

Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April
1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th
Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of
his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush
logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for
so-called ''weekend warriors.''

Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent
the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18
months in flight school. His Democratic opponent, Vice President Al
Gore, who enlisted in the Army for two years and spent
five months in Vietnam, logged only about a month more active service,
since he won an early release from service.

Still, the puzzling gap in Bush's military service is likely to heighten
speculation about the conspicuous underachievement that
marked the period between his 1968 graduation from Yale University and
his 1973 entry into Harvard Business School. It is
speculation that Bush has helped to fuel: For example, he refused for
months last year to say whether he had ever used illegal
drugs. Subsequently, however, Bush amended his stance, saying that he
had not done so since 1974.

The period in 1972 and 1973 when Bush sidestepped his military
obligation coincides with a well-publicized incident during the
1972 Christmas holidays: Bush had a confrontation with his father after
he took his younger brother, Marvin, out drinking and
returned to the family's Washington home after knocking over some
garbage cans on the ride home.

In his autobiography, Bush says that his decision to go to business
school the following September was ''a turning point for me.''

Assessing Bush's military service three decades later is no easy task:
Some of his superiors are no longer alive. Others declined
to comment, or, understandably, cannot recall details about Bush's
comings and goings. And as Bush has risen in public life
over the last several years, Texas military officials have put many of
his records off-limits and heavily redacted many other
pages, ostensibly because of privacy rules.

But 160 pages of his records, assembled by the Globe from a variety of
sources and supplemented by interviews with former
Guard officials, paint a picture of an Air Guardsman who enjoyed favored
treatment on several occasions.

The ease of Bush's entry into the Air Guard was widely reported last
year. At a time when such billets were coveted and his
father was a Houston congressman, Bush vaulted to the top of a waiting
list of 500. Bush and his father have denied that he
received any preferential treatment. But last year, Ben Barnes, who was
speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in a sworn
deposition in a civil lawsuit that he called Guard officials seeking a
Guard slot for Bush after a friend of Bush's father asked him
to do so.

Before he went to basic training, Bush was approved for an automatic
commission as a second lieutenant and assignment to
flight school despite a score of just 25 percent on a pilot aptitude
test. Such commissions were not uncommon, although most
often they went to prospective pilots who had college ROTC courses or
prior Air Force experience. Bush had neither.

In interviews last week, Guard officials from that era said Bush
leapfrogged over other applicants because few applicants were
willing to commit to the 18 months of flight training or the inherent
dangers of flying.

As a pilot, the future governor appeared to do well. After eight weeks
of basic training in the summer of 1968 - and a
two-month break to work on a Senate race in Florida - Bush attended 55
weeks of flight school at Moody Air Force Base in
Georgia, from November 1968 to November 1969, followed by five months of
full-time training on the F-102 back at
Ellington.

Retired Colonel Maurice H. Udell, Bush's instructor in the F-102, said
he was impressed with Bush's talent and his attitude.
''He had his boots shined, his uniform pressed, his hair cut and he
said, `Yes, sir' and `No, sir,''' the instructor recalled.

Said Udell, ''I would rank him in the top 5 percent of pilots I knew.
And in the thinking department, he was in the top 1
percent. He was very capable and tough as a boot.''

But 22 months after finishing his training, and with two years left on
his six-year commitment, Bush gave up flying - for good, it
would turn out. He sought permission to do ''equivalent training'' at a
Guard unit in Alabama, where he planned to work for
several months on the Republican Senate campaign of Winton Blount, a
friend of Bush's father. The proposed move took Bush
off flight status, since no Alabama Guard unit had the F-102 he was
trained to fly.

At that point, starting in May 1972, First Lieutenant Bush began to
disappear from the Guard's radar screen.

When the Globe first raised questions about this period earlier this
month, Bartlett, Bush's spokesman, referred a reporter to
Albert Lloyd Jr., a retired colonel who was the Texas Air Guard's
personnel director from 1969 to 1995.

Lloyd, who a year ago helped the Bush campaign make sense of the
governor's military records, said Bush's aides were
concerned about the gap in his records back then.

On May 24, 1972, after he moved to Alabama, Bush made a formal request
to do his equivalent training at the 9921st Air
Reserve Squadron at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. Two days later,
that unit's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Reese
H. Bricken, agreed to have Bush join his unit temporarily.

In Houston, Bush's superiors approved. But a higher headquarters
disapproved, noting that Bricken's unit did not have regular
drills.

''We met just one weeknight a month. We were only a postal unit. We had
no airplanes. We had no pilots. We had no
nothing,'' Bricken said in an interview.

Last week, Lloyd said he is mystified why Bush's superiors at the time
approved duty at such a unit.

Inexplicably, months went by with no resolution to Bush's status - and
no Guard duty. Bush's evident disconnection from his
Guard duties was underscored in August, when he was removed from flight
status for failing to take his annual flight physical.

Finally, on Sept. 5, 1972, Bush requested permission to do duty for
September, October, and November at the 187th Tactical
Recon Group in Montgomery. Permission was granted, and Bush was directed
to report to Turnipseed, the unit's commander.

In interviews last week, Turnipseed and his administrative officer at
the time, Kenneth K. Lott, said they had no memory of
Bush ever reporting.

''Had he reported in, I would have had some recall, and I do not,''
Turnipseed said. ''I had been in Texas, done my flight
training there. If we had had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would
have remembered.''

Lloyd, the retired Texas Air Guard official, said he does not know
whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. ''If he did, his
drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and
there would have been a record. We cannot find the
records to show he fulfilled the requirements in Alabama,'' he said.

Indeed, Bush's discharge papers list his service and duty station for
each of his first four years in the Air Guard. But there is no
record of training listed after May 1972, and no mention of any service
in Alabama. On that discharge form, Lloyd said, ''there
should have been an entry for the period between May 1972 and May
1973.''

Said Lloyd, ''It appeared he had a bad year. He might have lost
interest, since he knew he was getting out.''

In an effort last year to solve the puzzle, Lloyd said he scoured Guard
records, where he found two ''special orders''
commanding Bush to appear for active duty on nine days in May 1973. That
is the same month that Lieutenant Colonel William
D. Harris Jr. and Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian effectively
declared Bush missing from duty.

In Bush's annual efficiency report, dated May 2, 1973, the two
supervising pilots did not rate Bush for the prior year, writing,
''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of
report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to
move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has
been performing equivalent training in a
non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base,
Alabama.''

Asked about that declaration, campaign spokesman Bartlett said Bush told
him that since he was no longer flying, he was doing
''odds and ends'' under different supervisors whose names he could not
recall.

But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer,
said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire
year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to
duty at Ellington. And Bush, in his autobiography,
identifies the late colonel Killian as a friend, making it even more
likely that Killian knew where Bush was.

Lieutenant Bush, to be sure, had gone off flying status when he went to
Alabama. But had he returned to his unit in November
1972, there would have been no barrier to him flying again, except
passing a flight physical. Although the F-102 was being
phased out, his unit's records show that Guard pilots logged thousands
of hours in the F-102 in 1973.

During his search, Lloyd said, the only other paperwork he discovered
was a single torn page bearing Bush's social security
number and numbers awarding some points for Guard duty. But the partial
page is undated. If it represents the year in question,
it leaves unexplained why Bush's two superior officers would have
declared him absent for the full year.

There is no doubt that Bush was in Houston in late 1972 and early 1973.
During that period, according to Bush's
autobiography, he held a civilian job working for an inner-city,
antipoverty program in the city.

Lloyd, who has studied the records extensively, said he is an admirer of
the governor and believes ''the governor honestly
served his country and fulfilled his commitment.''

But Lloyd said it is possible that since Bush had his sights set on
discharge and the unit was beginning to replace the F-102s,
Bush's superiors told him he was not ''in the flow chart. Maybe George
Bush took that as a signal and said, `Hell, I'm not going
to bother going to drills.'

''Well, then it comes rating time, and someone says, `Oh...he hasn't
fulfilled his obligation.' I'll bet someone called him up and
said, `George, you're in a pickle. Get your ass down here and perform
some duty.' And he did,'' Lloyd said.

That would explain, Lloyd said, the records showing Bush cramming so
many drills into May, June, and July 1973. During
those three months, Bush spent 36 days on duty.

Bush's last day in uniform before he moved to Cambridge was July 30,
1973. His official release from active duty was dated
Oct. 1, 1973, eight months before his six-year commitment was scheduled
to end.

Officially, the period between May 1972 and May 1973 remains unaccounted
for. In November 1973, responding to a request
from the headquarters of the Air National Guard for Bush's annual
evaluation for that year, Martin, the Ellington administrative
officer, wrote, ''Report for this period not available for
administrative reasons.''

This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a booming
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war under
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-03 17:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Hey you make some good points now let's look at them individually and try to
1. It is a proven fact that Clinton left the country to avoid the draft and
it is pure fiction that Bush was AWOL,
1-year gap in Bush's Guard duty
No record of airman at drills from 1972-73
By Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff, 5/23/2000
AUSTIN, Texas - After George W. Bush became governor in 1995, the
Houston Air National Guard unit he had served with
during the Vietnam War years honored him for his work, noting that he
flew an F-102 fighter-interceptor until his discharge in
October 1973.
And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,''
recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed
in June 1970. ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several
years,'' the governor wrote.
But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records,
obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of
military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much
of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a
full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills
required of part-time guardsmen.
Bush, who declined to be interviewed on the issue, said through a
spokesman that he has ''some recollection'' of attending drills
that year, but maybe not consistently.
From May to November 1972, Bush was in Alabama working in a US Senate
campaign, and was required to attend drills at
an Air National Guard unit in Montgomery. But there is no evidence in
his record that he did so. And William Turnipseed, the
retired general who commanded the Alabama unit back then, said in an
interview last week that Bush never appeared for duty
there.
After the election, Bush returned to Houston. But seven months later, in
May 1973, his two superior officers at Ellington Air
Force Base could not perform his annual evaluation covering the year
from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973 because, they
wrote, ''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period
of this report.''
Bush, they mistakenly concluded, had been training with the Alabama unit
for the previous 12 months. Both men have since
died. But Ellington's top personnel officer at the time, retired Colonel
Rufus G. Martin, said he had believed that First
Lieutenant Bush completed his final year of service in Alabama.
A Bush spokesman, Dan Bartlett, said after talking with the governor
that Bush recalls performing some duty in Alabama and
''recalls coming back to Houston and doing [Guard] duty, though he does
not recall if it was on a consistent basis.''
Noting that Bush, by that point, was no longer flying, Bartlett added,
''It's possible his presence and role became secondary.''
Last night, Mindy Tucker, another Bush campaign aide, asserted that the
governor ''fulfilled all of his requirements in the
Guard.'' If he missed any drills, she said, he made them up later on.
Under Air National Guard rules at the time, guardsmen who missed duty
could be reported to their Selective Service Board
and inducted into the Army as draftees.
If Bush's interest in Guard duty waned, as spokesman Bartlett hinted,
the records and former Guard officials suggest that Bush's
unit was lackadaisical in holding him to his commitment. Many states,
Texas among them, had a record during the Vietnam War
of providing a haven in the Guard for the sons of the well-connected,
and a tendency to excuse shirking by those with political
connections.
Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April
1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th
Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of
his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush
logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for
so-called ''weekend warriors.''
Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent
the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18
months in flight school. His Democratic opponent, Vice President Al
Gore, who enlisted in the Army for two years and spent
five months in Vietnam, logged only about a month more active service,
since he won an early release from service.
Still, the puzzling gap in Bush's military service is likely to heighten
speculation about the conspicuous underachievement that
marked the period between his 1968 graduation from Yale University and
his 1973 entry into Harvard Business School. It is
speculation that Bush has helped to fuel: For example, he refused for
months last year to say whether he had ever used illegal
drugs. Subsequently, however, Bush amended his stance, saying that he
had not done so since 1974.
The period in 1972 and 1973 when Bush sidestepped his military
obligation coincides with a well-publicized incident during the
1972 Christmas holidays: Bush had a confrontation with his father after
he took his younger brother, Marvin, out drinking and
returned to the family's Washington home after knocking over some
garbage cans on the ride home.
In his autobiography, Bush says that his decision to go to business
school the following September was ''a turning point for me.''
Some of his superiors are no longer alive. Others declined
to comment, or, understandably, cannot recall details about Bush's
comings and goings. And as Bush has risen in public life
over the last several years, Texas military officials have put many of
his records off-limits and heavily redacted many other
pages, ostensibly because of privacy rules.
But 160 pages of his records, assembled by the Globe from a variety of
sources and supplemented by interviews with former
Guard officials, paint a picture of an Air Guardsman who enjoyed favored
treatment on several occasions.
The ease of Bush's entry into the Air Guard was widely reported last
year. At a time when such billets were coveted and his
father was a Houston congressman, Bush vaulted to the top of a waiting
list of 500. Bush and his father have denied that he
received any preferential treatment. But last year, Ben Barnes, who was
speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in a sworn
deposition in a civil lawsuit that he called Guard officials seeking a
Guard slot for Bush after a friend of Bush's father asked him
to do so.
Before he went to basic training, Bush was approved for an automatic
commission as a second lieutenant and assignment to
flight school despite a score of just 25 percent on a pilot aptitude
test. Such commissions were not uncommon, although most
often they went to prospective pilots who had college ROTC courses or
prior Air Force experience. Bush had neither.
In interviews last week, Guard officials from that era said Bush
leapfrogged over other applicants because few applicants were
willing to commit to the 18 months of flight training or the inherent
dangers of flying.
As a pilot, the future governor appeared to do well. After eight weeks
of basic training in the summer of 1968 - and a
two-month break to work on a Senate race in Florida - Bush attended 55
weeks of flight school at Moody Air Force Base in
Georgia, from November 1968 to November 1969, followed by five months of
full-time training on the F-102 back at
Ellington.
Retired Colonel Maurice H. Udell, Bush's instructor in the F-102, said
he was impressed with Bush's talent and his attitude.
''He had his boots shined, his uniform pressed, his hair cut and he
said, `Yes, sir' and `No, sir,''' the instructor recalled.
Said Udell, ''I would rank him in the top 5 percent of pilots I knew.
And in the thinking department, he was in the top 1
percent. He was very capable and tough as a boot.''
But 22 months after f nishing his training, and with two years left on
his six-year commitment, Bush gave up flying - for good, it
would turn out. He sought permission to do ''equivalent training'' at a
Guard unit in Alabama, where he planned to work for
several months on the Republican Senate campaign of Winton Blount, a
friend of Bush's father. The proposed move took Bush
off flight status, since no Alabama Guard unit had the F-102 he was
trained to fly.
At that point, starting in May 1972, First Lieutenant Bush began to
disappear from the Guard's radar screen.
When the Globe first raised questions about this period earlier this
month, Bartlett, Bush's spokesman, referred a reporter to
Albert Lloyd Jr., a retired colonel who was the Texas Air Guard's
personnel director from 1969 to 1995.
Lloyd, who a year ago helped the Bush campaign make sense of the
governor's military records, said Bush's aides were
concerned about the gap in his records back then.
On May 24, 1972, after he moved to Alabama, Bush made a formal request
to do his equivalent training at the 9921st Air
Reserve Squadron at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. Two days later,
that unit's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Reese
H. Bricken, agreed to have Bush join his unit temporarily.
In Houston, Bush's superiors approved. But a higher headquarters
disapproved, noting that Bricken's unit did not have regular
drills.
''We met just one weeknight a month. We were only a postal unit. We had
no airplanes. We had no pilots. We had no
nothing,'' Bricken said in an interview.
Last week, Lloyd said he is mystified why Bush's superiors at the time
approved duty at such a unit.
Inexplicably, months went by with no resolution to Bush's status - and
no Guard duty. Bush's evident disconnection from his
Guard duties was underscored in August, when he was removed from flight
status for failing to take his annual flight physical.
Finally, on Sept. 5, 1972, Bush requested permission to do duty for
September, October, and November at the 187th Tactical
Recon Group in Montgomery. Permission was granted, and Bush was directed
to report to Turnipseed, the unit's commander.
In interviews last week, Turnipseed and his administrative officer at
the time, Kenneth K. Lott, said they had no memory of
Bush ever reporting.
''Had he reported in, I would have had some recall, and I do not,''
Turnipseed said. ''I had been in Texas, done my flight
training there. If we had had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would
have remembered.''
Lloyd, the retired Texas Air Guard official, said he does not know
whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. ''If he did, his
drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and
there would have been a record. We cannot find the
records to show he fulfilled the requirements in Alabama,'' he said.
Indeed, Bush's discharge papers list his service and duty station for
each of his first four years in the Air Guard. But there is no
record of training listed after May 1972, and no mention of any service
in Alabama. On that discharge form, Lloyd said, ''there
should have been an entry for the period between May 1972 and May
1973.''
Said Lloyd, ''It appeared he had a bad year. He might have lost
interest, since he knew he was getting out.''
In an effort last year to solve the puzzle, Lloyd said he scoured Guard
records, where he found two ''special orders''
commanding Bush to appear for active duty on nine days in May 1973. That
is the same month that Lieutenant Colonel William
D. Harris Jr. and Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian effectively
declared Bush missing from duty.
In Bush's annual efficiency report, dated May 2, 1973, the two
supervising pilots did not rate Bush for the prior year, writing,
''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of
report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to
move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has
been performing equivalent training in a
non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base,
Alabama.''
Asked about that declaration, campaign spokesman Bartlett said Bush told
him that since he was no longer flying, he was doing
''odds and ends'' under different supervisors whose names he could not
recall.
But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer,
said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire
year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to
duty at Ellington. And Bush, in his autobiography,
identifies the late colonel Killian as a friend, making it even more
likely that Killian knew where Bush was.
Lieutenant Bush, to be sure, had gone off flying status when he went to
Alabama. But had he returned to his unit in November
1972, there would have been no barrier to him flying again, except
passing a flight physical. Although the F-102 was being
phased out, his unit's records show that Guard pilots logged thousands
of hours in the F-102 in 1973.
During his search, Lloyd said, the only other paperwork he discovered
was a single torn page bearing Bush's social security
number and numbers awarding some points for Guard duty. But the partial
page is undated. If it represents the year in question,
it leaves unexplained why Bush's two superior officers would have
declared him absent for the full year.
There is no doubt that Bush was in Houston in late 1972 and early 1973.
During that period, according to Bush's
autobiography, he held a civilian job working for an inner-city,
antipoverty program in the city.
Lloyd, who has studied the records extensively, said he is an admirer of
the governor and believes ''the governor honestly
served his country and fulfilled his commitment.''
But Lloyd said it is possible that since Bush had his sights set on
discharge and the unit was beginning to replace the F-102s,
Bush's superiors told him he was not ''in the flow chart. Maybe George
Bush took that as a signal and said, `Hell, I'm not going
to bother going to drills.'
''Well, then it comes rating time, and someone says, `Oh...he hasn't
fulfilled his obligation.' I'll bet someone called him up and
said, `George, you're in a pickle. Get your ass down here and perform
some duty.' And he did,'' Lloyd said.
That would explain, Lloyd said, the records showing Bush cramming so
many drills into May, June, and July 1973. During
those three months, Bush spent 36 days on duty.
Bush's last day in uniform before he moved to Cambridge was July 30,
1973. His official release from active duty was dated
Oct. 1, 1973, eight months before his six-year commitment was scheduled
to end.
Officially, the period between May 1972 and May 1973 remains unaccounted
for. In November 1973, responding to a request
from the headquarters of the Air National Guard for Bush's annual
evaluation for that year, Martin, the Ellington administrative
officer, wrote, ''Report for this period not available for
administrative reasons.''
This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a booming
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war under
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual but
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If this
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're a
liberal!
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
Ken [NY)
2004-01-03 18:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual but
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If this
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're a
liberal!
You gotta remember - this is all they have to try to get one
of their own into the White House. Pathetic, isn't it?

Cordially,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction
because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."
- Ann Coulter 9/26/2002

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

spammers can send mail to ***@ftc.gov
George Spelvin
2004-01-04 16:31:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Hey you make some good points now let's look at them individually and
try to
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
1. It is a proven fact that Clinton left the country to avoid the draft
and
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
it is pure fiction that Bush was AWOL,
1-year gap in Bush's Guard duty
No record of airman at drills from 1972-73
By Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff, 5/23/2000
AUSTIN, Texas - After George W. Bush became governor in 1995, the
Houston Air National Guard unit he had served with
during the Vietnam War years honored him for his work, noting that he
flew an F-102 fighter-interceptor until his discharge in
October 1973.
And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,''
recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed
in June 1970. ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several
years,'' the governor wrote.
But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records,
obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of
military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much
of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a
full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills
required of part-time guardsmen.
Bush, who declined to be interviewed on the issue, said through a
spokesman that he has ''some recollection'' of attending drills
that year, but maybe not consistently.
From May to November 1972, Bush was in Alabama working in a US Senate
campaign, and was required to attend drills at
an Air National Guard unit in Montgomery. But there is no evidence in
his record that he did so. And William Turnipseed, the
retired general who commanded the Alabama unit back then, said in an
interview last week that Bush never appeared for duty
there.
After the election, Bush returned to Houston. But seven months later, in
May 1973, his two superior officers at Ellington Air
Force Base could not perform his annual evaluation covering the year
from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973 because, they
wrote, ''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period
of this report.''
Bush, they mistakenly concluded, had been training with the Alabama unit
for the previous 12 months. Both men have since
died. But Ellington's top personnel officer at the time, retired Colonel
Rufus G. Martin, said he had believed that First
Lieutenant Bush completed his final year of service in Alabama.
A Bush spokesman, Dan Bartlett, said after talking with the governor
that Bush recalls performing some duty in Alabama and
''recalls coming back to Houston and doing [Guard] duty, though he does
not recall if it was on a consistent basis.''
Noting that Bush, by that point, was no longer flying, Bartlett added,
''It's possible his presence and role became secondary.''
Last night, Mindy Tucker, another Bush campaign aide, asserted that the
governor ''fulfilled all of his requirements in the
Guard.'' If he missed any drills, she said, he made them up later on.
Under Air National Guard rules at the time, guardsmen who missed duty
could be reported to their Selective Service Board
and inducted into the Army as draftees.
If Bush's interest in Guard duty waned, as spokesman Bartlett hinted,
the records and former Guard officials suggest that Bush's
unit was lackadaisical in holding him to his commitment. Many states,
Texas among them, had a record during the Vietnam War
of providing a haven in the Guard for the sons of the well-connected,
and a tendency to excuse shirking by those with political
connections.
Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April
1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th
Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of
his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush
logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for
so-called ''weekend warriors.''
Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent
the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18
months in flight school. His Democratic opponent, Vice President Al
Gore, who enlisted in the Army for two years and spent
five months in Vietnam, logged only about a month more active service,
since he won an early release from service.
Still, the puzzling gap in Bush's military service is likely to heighten
speculation about the conspicuous underachievement that
marked the period between his 1968 graduation from Yale University and
his 1973 entry into Harvard Business School. It is
speculation that Bush has helped to fuel: For example, he refused for
months last year to say whether he had ever used illegal
drugs. Subsequently, however, Bush amended his stance, saying that he
had not done so since 1974.
The period in 1972 and 1973 when Bush sidestepped his military
obligation coincides with a well-publicized incident during the
1972 Christmas holidays: Bush had a confrontation with his father after
he took his younger brother, Marvin, out drinking and
returned to the family's Washington home after knocking over some
garbage cans on the ride home.
In his autobiography, Bush says that his decision to go to business
school the following September was ''a turning point for me.''
Some of his superiors are no longer alive. Others declined
to comment, or, understandably, cannot recall details about Bush's
comings and goings. And as Bush has risen in public life
over the last several years, Texas military officials have put many of
his records off-limits and heavily redacted many other
pages, ostensibly because of privacy rules.
But 160 pages of his records, assembled by the Globe from a variety of
sources and supplemented by interviews with former
Guard officials, paint a picture of an Air Guardsman who enjoyed favored
treatment on several occasions.
The ease of Bush's entry into the Air Guard was widely reported last
year. At a time when such billets were coveted and his
father was a Houston congressman, Bush vaulted to the top of a waiting
list of 500. Bush and his father have denied that he
received any preferential treatment. But last year, Ben Barnes, who was
speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in a sworn
deposition in a civil lawsuit that he called Guard officials seeking a
Guard slot for Bush after a friend of Bush's father asked him
to do so.
Before he went to basic training, Bush was approved for an automatic
commission as a second lieutenant and assignment to
flight school despite a score of just 25 percent on a pilot aptitude
test. Such commissions were not uncommon, although most
often they went to prospective pilots who had college ROTC courses or
prior Air Force experience. Bush had neither.
In interviews last week, Guard officials from that era said Bush
leapfrogged over other applicants because few applicants were
willing to commit to the 18 months of flight training or the inherent
dangers of flying.
As a pilot, the future governor appeared to do well. After eight weeks
of basic training in the summer of 1968 - and a
two-month break to work on a Senate race in Florida - Bush attended 55
weeks of flight school at Moody Air Force Base in
Georgia, from November 1968 to November 1969, followed by five months of
full-time training on the F-102 back at
Ellington.
Retired Colonel Maurice H. Udell, Bush's instructor in the F-102, said
he was impressed with Bush's talent and his attitude.
''He had his boots shined, his uniform pressed, his hair cut and he
said, `Yes, sir' and `No, sir,''' the instructor recalled.
Said Udell, ''I would rank him in the top 5 percent of pilots I knew.
And in the thinking department, he was in the top 1
percent. He was very capable and tough as a boot.''
But 22 months after finishing his training, and with two years left on
his six-year commitment, Bush gave up flying - for good, it
would turn out He sought permission to do ''equivalent training'' at a
Guard unit in Alabama, where he planned to work for
several months on the Republican Senate campaign of Winton Blount, a
friend of Bush's father. The proposed move took Bush
off flight status, since no Alabama Guard unit had the F-102 he was
trained to fly.
At that point, starting in May 1972, First Lieutenant Bush began to
disappear from the Guard's radar screen.
When the Globe first raised questions about this period earlier this
month, Bartlett, Bush's spokesman, referred a reporter to
Albert Lloyd Jr., a retired colonel who was the Texas Air Guard's
personnel director from 1969 to 1995.
Lloyd, who a year ago helped the Bush campaign make sense of the
governor's military records, said Bush's aides were
concerned about the gap in his records back then.
On May 24, 1972, after he moved to Alabama, Bush made a formal request
to do his equivalent training at the 9921st Air
Reserve Squadron at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. Two days later,
that unit's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Reese
H. Bricken, agreed to have Bush join his unit temporarily.
In Houston, Bush's superiors approved. But a higher headquarters
disapproved, noting that Bricken's unit did not have regular
drills.
''We met just one weeknight a month. We were only a postal unit. We had
no airplanes. We had no pilots. We had no
nothing,'' Bricken said in an interview.
Last week, Lloyd said he is mystified why Bush's superiors at the time
approved duty at such a unit.
Inexplicably, months went by with no resolution to Bush's status - and
no Guard duty. Bush's evident disconnection from his
Guard duties was underscored in August, when he was removed from flight
status for failing to take his annual flight physical.
Finally, on Sept. 5, 1972, Bush requested permission to do duty for
September, October, and November at the 187th Tactical
Recon Group in Montgomery. Permission was granted, and Bush was directed
to report to Turnipseed, the unit's commander.
In interviews last week, Turnipseed and his administrative officer at
the time, Kenneth K. Lott, said they had no memory of
Bush ever reporting.
''Had he reported in, I would have had some recall, and I do not,''
Turnipseed said. ''I had been in Texas, done my flight
training there. If we had had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would
have remembered.''
Lloyd, the retired Texas Air Guard official, said he does not know
whether Bush performed duty in Alabama. ''If he did, his
drill attendance should have been certified and sent to Ellington, and
there would have been a record. We cannot find the
records to show he fulfilled the requirements in Alabama,'' he said.
Indeed, Bush's discharge papers list his service and duty station for
each of his first four years in the Air Guard. But there is no
record of training listed after May 1972, and no mention of any service
in Alabama. On that discharge form, Lloyd said, ''there
should have been an entry for the period between May 1972 and May
1973.''
Said Lloyd, ''It appeared he had a bad year. He might have lost
interest, since he knew he was getting out.''
In an effort last year to solve the puzzle, Lloyd said he scoured Guard
records, where he found two ''special orders''
commanding Bush to appear for active duty on nine days in May 1973. That
is the same month that Lieutenant Colonel William
D. Harris Jr. and Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian effectively
declared Bush missing from duty.
In Bush's annual efficiency report, dated May 2, 1973, the two
supervising pilots did not rate Bush for the prior year, writing,
''Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of
report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to
move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has
been performing equivalent training in a
non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base,
Alabama.''
Asked about that declaration, campaign spokesman Bartlett said Bush told
him that since he was no longer flying, he was doing
''odds and ends'' under different supervisors whose names he could not
recall.
But retired colonel Martin, the unit's former administrative officer,
said he too thought Bush had been in Alabama for that entire
year. Harris and Killian, he said, would have known if Bush returned to
duty at Ellington. And Bush, in his autobiography,
identifies the late colonel Killian as a friend, making it even more
likely that Killian knew where Bush was.
Lieutenant Bush, to be sure, had gone off flying status when he went to
Alabama. But had he returned to his unit in November
1972, there would have been no barrier to him flying again, except
passing a flight physical. Although the F-102 was being
phased out, his unit's records show that Guard pilots logged thousands
of hours in the F-102 in 1973.
During his search, Lloyd said, the only other paperwork he discovered
was a single torn page bearing Bush's social security
number and numbers awarding some points for Guard duty. But the partial
page is undated. If it represents the year in question,
it leaves unexplained why Bush's two superior officers would have
declared him absent for the full year.
There is no doubt that Bush was in Houston in late 1972 and early 1973.
During that period, according to Bush's
autobiography, he held a civilian job working for an inner-city,
antipoverty program in the city.
Lloyd, who has studied the records extensively, said he is an admirer of
the governor and believes ''the governor honestly
served his country and fulfilled his commitment.''
But Lloyd said it is possible that since Bush had his sights set on
discharge and the unit was beginning to replace the F-102s,
Bush's superiors told him he was not ''in the flow chart. Maybe George
Bush took that as a signal and said, `Hell, I'm not going
to bother going to drills.'
''Well, then it comes rating time, and someone says, `Oh...he hasn't
fulfilled his obligation.' I'll bet someone called him up and
said, `George, you're in a pickle. Get your ass down here and perform
some duty.' And he did,'' Lloyd said.
That would explain, Lloyd said, the records showing Bush cramming so
many drills into May, June, and July 1973. During
those three months, Bush spent 36 days on duty.
Bush's last day in uniform before he moved to Cambridge was July 30,
1973. His official release from active duty was dated
Oct. 1, 1973, eight months before his six-year commitment was scheduled
to end.
Officially, the period between May 1972 and May 1973 remains unaccounted
for. In November 1973, responding to a request
from the headquarters of the Air National Guard for Bush's annual
evaluation for that year, Martin, the Ellington administrative
officer, wrote, ''Report for this period not available for
administrative reasons.''
This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a
booming
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war
under
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual but
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If this
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're a
liberal!
In other words, you admit to being wrong. See...that wasn't so hard.
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
You are calling Powell a liar now.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-04 20:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a
booming
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war
under
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual but
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If this
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're a
liberal!
In other words, you admit to being wrong. See...that wasn't so hard.
If you can interpret my statement as an admission of being wrong... go for
it! :-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
You are calling Powell a liar now.
No, I would say he was mistaken....he's human, did you ever make a mistake?
(besides being a liberal) Your idol Gore would prefer to call him a
liar.....
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
Let me give you some interesting reading! :-))

If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People

Since we haven't found WMD in Iraq yet, a lot of the anti-war/anti-Bush
crowd is claiming that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's weapons of
mass destruction. The story being floated now is that Saddam had no WMD (or
almost none) and that the Bush administration didn't tell the truth about
the WMD threat.

Well, if they're going to claim that the Bush administration lied, then
there sure are a lot of other people, including quite a few prominent
Democrats, who have told the same lies since the inspectors pulled out of
Iraq in 1998. Here are just a few examples of what I'm talking about...

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to
the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein,
Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9,
1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last
visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has
reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological,
chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War
status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-
range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From
a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford,
& Tom Lantos among others

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while
retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We
cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright,
1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its
agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence
reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet
achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with
the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in
the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past
four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has
continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat
Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use
them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and
all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." --
Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible
events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American
security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in
1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a
warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those
trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of
2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass
destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them
against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam
Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available
means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already
used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build
more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons,
and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John
Edwards, Oct 10, 2002 (Senate Intelligence)

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of
mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we
should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to
weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction
has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham,
December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority
to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002 (Senate
Intelligence)

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors
discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq
was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is
still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to
think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued
biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims
about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq
used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish
population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past,
there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt
that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass
destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the
proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave
importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to
countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection
process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible
intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still
has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium
perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic
missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these
deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX
substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored
in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains
significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly
reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons
Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to
enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that
difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002 (Chairman: Senate
Intelligence)

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very
real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both
against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop
delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring
these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle
East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards
Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has
systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of
international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying
time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United
Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are
simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
George Spelvin
2004-01-05 18:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a
booming
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war
under
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual
but
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If
this
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
liberal!
In other words, you admit to being wrong. See...that wasn't so hard.
If you can interpret my statement as an admission of being wrong... go for
it! :-))
I did.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
You are calling Powell a liar now.
No, I would say he was mistaken....he's human, did you ever make a mistake?
(besides being a liberal) Your idol Gore would prefer to call him a
liar.....
No, Gore was just mistaken. There are no supplies. No supplies have
been uncovered. Your assumption is not evidence of being.
Post by HOD
If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing. Their
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-05 23:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
This story ran on page 01A of the Boston Globe on 5/23/2000.
© 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.
Post by DDB
2. Democrats now are claiming that Bush was at fault over 9/11,
Red herring.
Post by DDB
3. Democrats are also quick to point out that Clinton resided over a
booming
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
economy and at the 10 thousand foot level
While absolutely true, another red herring.
Post by DDB
4. Democrats also claim that Clinton never took into an illegal war
under
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
false pretences.
Yet, another red herring.
Post by DDB
Gee that's what Bush 4 and Clinton 0. Hm
That's you at 0.
So after all of this hard work on your part, which I doubt is factual
but
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
have absolutely no intention of checking because who in their right mind
really gives a shit, what do you believe that you've established? If
this
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
bullshit is accurate it has shown Bush to be an free-thinking individual
that didn't like military drills all that much!.... so sue him!
He doesn't care, I don't care, you shouldn't care but then again, you're
a
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
liberal!
In other words, you admit to being wrong. See...that wasn't so hard.
If you can interpret my statement as an admission of being wrong... go for
it! :-))
I did.
You'd be a little on the simple side, Gomer!... but, it's your business
:-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10
years."--Colin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Powell, May 2001
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
You are calling Powell a liar now.
No, I would say he was mistaken....he's human, did you ever make a mistake?
(besides being a liberal) Your idol Gore would prefer to call him a
liar.....
No, Gore was just mistaken. There are no supplies. No supplies have
been uncovered. Your assumption is not evidence of being.
Post by HOD
If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing. Their
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
Now you're lying, simple one.... produce the proof right here and now! Show
us one certified source that confirms your immature rant.... there were no
lies, the Senate select committee had access directly connected to the
source of same, they along with most adults involved, believed the data and
as far as I'm concerned... that data has not yet been determined to be
incorrect in general and one more little thang, Goober.... the hunt
continues! :-))
Post by George Spelvin
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
Why would you prefer to show a statement made in 2001 by a man who changed
his mind in 2003 instead of showing statements made by your own kind, select
comrades picked from your very own cult who came to the same conclusions
that the administration did ? Never mind, of course....... you're a lying
liberal!

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while
retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We
cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright,
1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its
agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence
reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet
achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with
the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in
the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past
four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has
continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat
Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use
them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and
all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." --
Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible
events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American
security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in
1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a
warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those
trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of
2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass
destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them
against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam
Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available
means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already
used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build
more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons,
and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John
Edwards, Oct 10, 2002 (Senate Intelligence)

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of
mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we
should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to
weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction
has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham,
December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority
to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002 (Senate
Intelligence)

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors
discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq
was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is
still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to
think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued
biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims
about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq
used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish
population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past,
there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt
that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass
destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the
proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave
importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to
countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection
process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible
intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still
has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium
perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic
missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these
deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX
substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored
in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains
significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly
reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons
Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to
enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that
difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002 (Chairman: Senate
Intelligence)

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very
real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both
against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop
delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring
these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle
East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards
Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has
systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of
international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying
time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United
Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are
simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
George Spelvin
2004-01-06 13:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing. Their
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
Now you're lying, simple one.... produce the proof right here and now! Show
us one certified source
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."

Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-08 02:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing. Their
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
Now you're lying, simple one.... produce the proof right here and now! Show
us one certified source
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you might
well be an immature lying moron!

Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were told
or when they were told... what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the president,
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I
believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real
and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within
the
next five years ... We also should remember we have always
underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has
also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda
members
.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
George Spelvin
2004-01-08 18:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing. Their
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
Now you're lying, simple one.... produce the proof right here and now!
Show
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
us one certified source
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you might
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were told
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to vote
for the resolution.

Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the president,
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-08 22:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
As has already been proven, they were given lies in a briefing.
Their
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
"mistake" was believing what they were told by the lying Bush
administration.
Now you're lying, simple one.... produce the proof right here and now!
Show
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
us one certified source
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you might
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Nothing short about your lack of smarts.... even though you are a fine
specimen of a liberal "mental-midget"
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were told
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to vote
for the resolution.
Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
It's all you want me to have but liberals seldom get their "wants"...
wouldn't you agree? You continue to dodge my request for proof.... you run,
you duck, you admit that you are full of crap and yet you continue to
lie..... why?
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the president,
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I
believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real
and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within
the
next five years ... We also should remember we have always
underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has
also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda
members
.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
George Spelvin
2004-01-09 16:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly
known
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you
might
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Nothing short about your lack of smarts.... even though you are a fine
specimen of a liberal "mental-midget"
ooooh. What a sharp and witty comeback.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were
told
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to vote
for the resolution.
Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
It's all you want me to have but liberals seldom get their "wants"...
wouldn't you agree? You continue to dodge my request for proof.... you run,
you duck, you admit that you are full of crap and yet you continue to
lie..... why?
I dodge nothing.

Stuart Cohen, the vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council who
supervised the production of a prewar National Intelligence Estimate
that concluded Iraq had chemical and biological weapons, went on
Nightline to defend the CIA's work on Iraq's WMDs. He said, "we judged
that [Hussein] did not have nuclear weapons--indeed, would not have them
until very late in the decade."

"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear
weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney – “Meet the Press” 3/16/2003

"We were CONCERNED about unmanned aerial vehicles. And at least
THEORETICALLY, there was a CONCERN at the POSSIBILITY that unmanned
aerial vehicles COULD be brought within reach of the United States and
used."--Stuart Cohen (emphasis mine)

Hardly the threat the 75 senators were told. The administration's
briefer intentionally mislead the senators to believing the threat was
real even though the intelligence pointed to theories and possibilities.

You lose again. This is easy.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought right-wingers
were better at attacks.

Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
Osprey
2004-01-09 17:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly
known
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you
might
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Nothing short about your lack of smarts.... even though you are a fine
specimen of a liberal "mental-midget"
ooooh. What a sharp and witty comeback.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were
told
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to vote
for the resolution.
Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
It's all you want me to have but liberals seldom get their "wants"...
wouldn't you agree? You continue to dodge my request for proof.... you run,
you duck, you admit that you are full of crap and yet you continue to
lie..... why?
I dodge nothing.
Stuart Cohen, the vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council who
supervised the production of a prewar National Intelligence Estimate
that concluded Iraq had chemical and biological weapons, went on
Nightline to defend the CIA's work on Iraq's WMDs. He said, "we judged
that [Hussein] did not have nuclear weapons--indeed, would not have them
until very late in the decade."
"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear
weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney - "Meet the Press" 3/16/2003
"We were CONCERNED about unmanned aerial vehicles. And at least
THEORETICALLY, there was a CONCERN at the POSSIBILITY that unmanned
aerial vehicles COULD be brought within reach of the United States and
used."--Stuart Cohen (emphasis mine)
Hardly the threat the 75 senators were told. The administration's
briefer intentionally mislead the senators to believing the threat was
real even though the intelligence pointed to theories and possibilities.
You lose again. This is easy.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought right-wingers
were better at attacks.
Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
Regardless of what you think of "right-wingers', we have done the right
thing by removing Saddam Hussein.

Now, that comment alone, has just shown me that you don't like republicans.

So, of the 9 democrats running, who do you like. Why? What can they do?
There are ONLY two that I would consider; although, I will most likely vote
again for Bush.

John Edwards and Joe Lieberman

The rest are absolutely a waste, and I wouldn't even consider them. Howard
Dean is DANGEROUS, he is hot headed, too quick on the draw, does not think
before he speaks. He is FAR too left.

Now, with that said, lets here your solutions. You appear to think somehow
that you are better than right-wingers.

If you would like, I have MANY quotes by liberals that show just how low
they stoop to attacks.

We will let that go for now, and see just what you have to offer.
George Spelvin
2004-01-11 15:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Osprey
Regardless of what you think of "right-wingers', we have done the right
thing by removing Saddam Hussein.
Regardless of the lies and deceptions? If it was the right thing to do,
why not be honest about it from the beginning? Why would you endorse
lies?
Post by Osprey
Now, that comment alone, has just shown me that you don't like republicans.
You would be very incorrect.
Post by Osprey
So, of the 9 democrats running, who do you like. Why? What can they do?
There are ONLY two that I would consider; although, I will most likely vote
again for Bush.
John Edwards and Joe Lieberman
Either would be better than Bush.
Post by Osprey
The rest are absolutely a waste, and I wouldn't even consider them. Howard
Dean is DANGEROUS, he is hot headed, too quick on the draw, does not think
before he speaks. He is FAR too left.
You are very ignorant of Howard Dean's record then.
Post by Osprey
Now, with that said, lets here your solutions. You appear to think somehow
that you are better than right-wingers.
I think anyone who is NOT a right-winger is better than right-wingers.
Post by Osprey
If you would like, I have MANY quotes by liberals that show just how low
they stoop to attacks.
And that makes them somehow worse than right-wingers?
Post by Osprey
We will let that go for now, and see just what you have to offer.
I'm not running for president.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-11 19:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by Osprey
Regardless of what you think of "right-wingers', we have done the right
thing by removing Saddam Hussein.
Regardless of the lies and deceptions? If it was the right thing to do,
why not be honest about it from the beginning? Why would you endorse
lies?
Post by Osprey
Now, that comment alone, has just shown me that you don't like republicans.
You would be very incorrect.
Post by Osprey
So, of the 9 democrats running, who do you like. Why? What can they do?
There are ONLY two that I would consider; although, I will most likely vote
again for Bush.
John Edwards and Joe Lieberman
Either would be better than Bush.
Post by Osprey
The rest are absolutely a waste, and I wouldn't even consider them.
Howard
Post by George Spelvin
Post by Osprey
Dean is DANGEROUS, he is hot headed, too quick on the draw, does not think
before he speaks. He is FAR too left.
You are very ignorant of Howard Dean's record then.
Post by Osprey
Now, with that said, lets here your solutions. You appear to think somehow
that you are better than right-wingers.
I think anyone who is NOT a right-winger is better than right-wingers.
Post by Osprey
If you would like, I have MANY quotes by liberals that show just how low
they stoop to attacks.
And that makes them somehow worse than right-wingers?
Post by Osprey
We will let that go for now, and see just what you have to offer.
I'm not running for president.
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the
cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
threaten
the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others,
Dec, 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible
to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam
is in
power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I
believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real
and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within
the
next five years ... We also should remember we have always
underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has
also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda
members
.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction
is
real"
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Mike Walton
2004-01-12 00:33:21 UTC
Permalink
As Governor, Howard Dean endorsed the National Governors Association
policy opposing the Kyoto Protocol and recommending that the United
States "not sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious
harm to the U.S. economy." For environmentalists, EP, under Dean's
leadership, came to mean "Expedite Permits", rather than Environmental
Protection. Business leaders were especially impressed with the way
Dean went to bat for them against Vermont's stringent environmental
regulations.

Dean has even endorsed the Bush doctrine of preventive war, saying
that he would not rule out using military force to disarm either North
Korea or Iran, and that is perhaps why he is trying to defeat John
Kerry -he is in effect seeking to re-elect George Bush, who thinks and
acts the way he does.

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm
HOD
2004-01-12 01:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Walton
As Governor, Howard Dean endorsed the National Governors Association
policy opposing the Kyoto Protocol and recommending that the United
States "not sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious
harm to the U.S. economy." For environmentalists, EP, under Dean's
leadership, came to mean "Expedite Permits", rather than Environmental
Protection. Business leaders were especially impressed with the way
Dean went to bat for them against Vermont's stringent environmental
regulations.
Dean has even endorsed the Bush doctrine of preventive war, saying
that he would not rule out using military force to disarm either North
Korea or Iran, and that is perhaps why he is trying to defeat John
Kerry -he is in effect seeking to re-elect George Bush, who thinks and
acts the way he does.
http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm
a fresh thought!
Mike Walton
2004-01-12 00:53:00 UTC
Permalink
According to Howard Dean George Bush is a moderate, and to use his
exact quote, he said that "in his soul" Bush was a moderate. Needless
to say, Howard Dean is trying to make America safe for extremists, and
that is exactly what he will accomplish if he hands over the election
to George Bush because no Democrat in his right mind will possibly
vote for this crackpot, and that will clearly marginalize the
Democratic party.

As Governor, Howard Dean endorsed the National Governors Association
policy opposing the Kyoto Protocol and recommending that the United
States "not sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious
harm to the U.S. economy." For environmentalists, EP, under Dean's
leadership, came to mean "Expedite Permits", rather than Environmental
Protection. Business leaders were especially impressed with the way
Dean went to bat for them against Vermont's stringent environmental
regulations.

Dean has even endorsed the Bush doctrine of preventive war, saying
that he would not rule out using military force to disarm either North
Korea or Iran, and that is perhaps why he is trying to defeat John
Kerry -he is in effect seeking to re-elect George Bush, who thinks and
acts the way he does.

Dean's approach to criminal justice is regressive and draconian, and
that is very common and typical of anybody with his extreme and
overwhelming arrogance. The campaign of this would-be tyrant who
thinks that he is entitled to control the Democratic Party because he
is using the Internet to launder the money that special interest
groups are secretely contributing, has peaked and crashed.

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm
HOD
2004-01-12 01:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Walton
According to Howard Dean George Bush is a moderate, and to use his
exact quote, he said that "in his soul" Bush was a moderate. Needless
to say, Howard Dean is trying to make America safe for extremists, and
that is exactly what he will accomplish if he hands over the election
to George Bush because no Democrat in his right mind will possibly
vote for this crackpot, and that will clearly marginalize the
Democratic party.
As Governor, Howard Dean endorsed the National Governors Association
policy opposing the Kyoto Protocol and recommending that the United
States "not sign or ratify any agreement that would result in serious
harm to the U.S. economy." For environmentalists, EP, under Dean's
leadership, came to mean "Expedite Permits", rather than Environmental
Protection. Business leaders were especially impressed with the way
Dean went to bat for them against Vermont's stringent environmental
regulations.
Dean has even endorsed the Bush doctrine of preventive war, saying
that he would not rule out using military force to disarm either North
Korea or Iran, and that is perhaps why he is trying to defeat John
Kerry -he is in effect seeking to re-elect George Bush, who thinks and
acts the way he does.
Dean's approach to criminal justice is regressive and draconian, and
that is very common and typical of anybody with his extreme and
overwhelming arrogance. The campaign of this would-be tyrant who
thinks that he is entitled to control the Democratic Party because he
is using the Internet to launder the money that special interest
groups are secretely contributing, has peaked and crashed.
http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm
Once again, fresh thought!

HOD
2004-01-09 23:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly
known
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only serves to
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you
might
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Nothing short about your lack of smarts.... even though you are a fine
specimen of a liberal "mental-midget"
ooooh. What a sharp and witty comeback.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators were
told
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to vote
for the resolution.
Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
It's all you want me to have but liberals seldom get their "wants"...
wouldn't you agree? You continue to dodge my request for proof.... you run,
you duck, you admit that you are full of crap and yet you continue to
lie..... why?
I dodge nothing.
Stuart Cohen, the vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council who
supervised the production of a prewar National Intelligence Estimate
that concluded Iraq had chemical and biological weapons, went on
Nightline to defend the CIA's work on Iraq's WMDs. He said, "we judged
that [Hussein] did not have nuclear weapons--indeed, would not have them
until very late in the decade."
"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear
weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney - "Meet the Press" 3/16/2003
"We were CONCERNED about unmanned aerial vehicles. And at least
THEORETICALLY, there was a CONCERN at the POSSIBILITY that unmanned
aerial vehicles COULD be brought within reach of the United States and
used."--Stuart Cohen (emphasis mine)
Hardly the threat the 75 senators were told. The administration's
briefer intentionally mislead the senators to believing the threat was
real even though the intelligence pointed to theories and possibilities.
You lose again. This is easy.
In your wet dreams.... :-))

Look, Gomer.... do you have any idea what the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence is?
Do you know which Senators serve on this committee?
Are you aware that this committee had full access to all intelligence data?

Your liberal leaders came to the exact same conclusion as Bush based on the
exact same data.....so simple, even for someone as simple-minded as you!
If Bush lied, they lied................................ ;-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence actually
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't true
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can prove.....
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought right-wingers
were better at attacks.
Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
You're just so easy..... I hate to give you up!

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last
visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has
reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological,
chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War
status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-
range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From
a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford,
& Tom Lantos among others

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while
retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We
cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright,
1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its
agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence
reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet
achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with
the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in
the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past
four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has
continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat
Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use
them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and
all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." --
Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible
events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American
security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in
1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a
warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those
trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of
2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass
destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them
against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam
Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available
means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already
used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build
more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons,
and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John
Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of
mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we
should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to
weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction
has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham,
December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority
to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors
discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq
was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is
still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to
think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued
biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims
about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq
used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish
population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past,
there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt
that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass
destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the
proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave
importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to
countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection
process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible
intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still
has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium
perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic
missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these
deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX
substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored
in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains
significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly
reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons
Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to
enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that
difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very
real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both
against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop
delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring
these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle
East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards
Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has
systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of
international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying
time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United
Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are
simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
Osprey
2004-01-10 00:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
"Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and
chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to
cities
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly
known
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
as drones."
Game, set, and match. Next time practice more before playing.
Oh you wish it were..... but your lack of direct response only
serves to
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
prove that you are either a complete moron or a immature liar or you
might
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
well be an immature lying moron!
You lack of intelligence is nothing short of amazing.
Nothing short about your lack of smarts.... even though you are a fine
specimen of a liberal "mental-midget"
ooooh. What a sharp and witty comeback.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Just once pay attention..... I could care less what the Senators
were
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
told
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
or when they were told...
Of course you don't, because it completely refutes what you want to
believe. 75 senators heard an untruth and that is what led many to
vote
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
for the resolution.
Those are the facts. You don't like them. Go ahead and continue to
insult me because that, apparently, is all you have.
It's all you want me to have but liberals seldom get their "wants"...
wouldn't you agree? You continue to dodge my request for proof.... you
run,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you duck, you admit that you are full of crap and yet you continue to
lie..... why?
I dodge nothing.
Stuart Cohen, the vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council who
supervised the production of a prewar National Intelligence Estimate
that concluded Iraq had chemical and biological weapons, went on
Nightline to defend the CIA's work on Iraq's WMDs. He said, "we judged
that [Hussein] did not have nuclear weapons--indeed, would not have them
until very late in the decade."
"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear
weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
VP Dick Cheney - "Meet the Press" 3/16/2003
"We were CONCERNED about unmanned aerial vehicles. And at least
THEORETICALLY, there was a CONCERN at the POSSIBILITY that unmanned
aerial vehicles COULD be brought within reach of the United States and
used."--Stuart Cohen (emphasis mine)
Hardly the threat the 75 senators were told. The administration's
briefer intentionally mislead the senators to believing the threat was
real even though the intelligence pointed to theories and possibilities.
You lose again. This is easy.
In your wet dreams.... :-))
Look, Gomer.... do you have any idea what the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence is?
Do you know which Senators serve on this committee?
Are you aware that this committee had full access to all intelligence data?
Your liberal leaders came to the exact same conclusion as Bush based on the
exact same data.....so simple, even for someone as simple-minded as you!
If Bush lied, they lied................................ ;-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence
actually
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that
wasn't
Post by George Spelvin
true
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care
less
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now!
:-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought right-wingers
were better at attacks.
Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
You're just so easy..... I hate to give you up!
"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last
visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has
reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological,
chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War
status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-
range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From
a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford,
& Tom Lantos among others
"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while
retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We
cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright,
1998
"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all
weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its
agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence
reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet
achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002
"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with
the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in
the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past
four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has
continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat
Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use
them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and
all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened
tomorrow." --
Post by George Spelvin
Bill Clinton in 1998
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also
given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members,
though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible
events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he
succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security
landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American
security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002
"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in
1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a
warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those
trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of
2003
"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass
destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them
against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998
"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our
allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam
Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available
means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already
used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build
more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons,
and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John
Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of
mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002
"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we
should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to
weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction
has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham,
December 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002
"I will be votin to give the president of the United States the authority
to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002
"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological
weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors
discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq
was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is
still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to
think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued
biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims
about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq
used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish
population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past,
there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt
that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass
destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002
"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the
proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave
importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to
countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection
process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998
"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible
intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still
has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium
perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic
missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these
deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX
substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored
in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains
significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly
reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons
Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively
Post by George Spelvin
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to
enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that
difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002
"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very
real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both
against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop
delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring
these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle
East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002
"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration's policy towards
Iraq, I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has
systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of
international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying
time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United
Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are
simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to

deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by

Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue

state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our
allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times
since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.
Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions

(including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites)
to respond effectively to the threat posed by

Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct.
9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries

in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical

and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status.
In addition, Saddam continues to redefine

delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program
to develop longer-range missiles that will

threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He

has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of
mass destruction and th! e means of delivering

them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for

as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of

chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash
course to build up his chemical and biological

warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking
nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam

Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass
destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our

security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have

nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we
have always underestimated the progress Saddam has

made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that

he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear
capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that
Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his

chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and
his nuclear program. He has also given aid,

comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is
clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam

Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop

nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a

developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He

presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone
to miscalculation ... And now he is

miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent
grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the

threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Mike Walton
2004-01-10 02:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Looks like Howard is in trouble !

http://www.geocities.com/bobeshope/kerry.htm
George Spelvin
2004-01-11 15:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Look, Gomer.... do you have any idea what the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence is?
Do you know which Senators serve on this committee?
Are you aware that this committee had full access to all intelligence data?
Your liberal leaders came to the exact same conclusion as Bush based on the
exact same data.....so simple, even for someone as simple-minded as you!
If Bush lied, they lied................................ ;-))
And some did. Are you suggesting that there are 75 senators on the damn
committee? You obviously have a hard time keeping up. Nelson was not
talking about the Senate Select Committee. He was speaking about an
administration briefing to the whole senate.

And they were lied to. It has been demonstrated and you can't seem to
face the truth when it is right in front of your face.
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence
actually
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't
true
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care
less
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought right-wingers
were better at attacks.
Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
You're just so easy..... I hate to give you up!
I knew it. You just couldn't resist. You said you were "finished" with
me until I provided proof. You apparently are not finished with me so I
must have provided the proof you were looking for. Glad I could help.
Now that I've proved you wrong, I'm finished with you.
--
Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to
develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years."--Colin
Powell, May 2001
HOD
2004-01-11 19:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Look, Gomer.... do you have any idea what the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence is?
Do you know which Senators serve on this committee?
Are you aware that this committee had full access to all intelligence data?
Your liberal leaders came to the exact same conclusion as Bush based on the
exact same data.....so simple, even for someone as simple-minded as you!
If Bush lied, they lied................................ ;-))
And some did. Are you suggesting that there are 75 senators on the damn
committee? You obviously have a hard time keeping up. Nelson was not
talking about the Senate Select Committee. He was speaking about an
administration briefing to the whole senate.
No fool, those are your words, not mine!....are you saying that the
democratic members of the Senate Select Committee actually knew the facts
about WMD but chose to keep quite while Bush & Company intentionally mislead
the full Senate? In other words these leading Senators are in cahoots with
Bush in this so-called conspiracy???You are even dumber than I thought......
:-))
Post by George Spelvin
And they were lied to. It has been demonstrated and you can't seem to
face the truth when it is right in front of your face.
In order for your ridiculous claim to work, the Senate Select Committee
would have to be a part of the so-called plot, right?

Kinda backed yourself in a corner..huh?..... now you either shit or you can
always shit! :-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what I want you to do is prove to me that whoever
shared with the committee the data gathered by out intelligence
actually
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
lied to them. In other words retard, did the person informing the
president,
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
etc, including the Senate committee tell them something that wasn't
true
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
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Post by HOD
while knowing that the information wasn't true? That is the act of
lying....... Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care
less
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now!
:-))
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
I'm sure you have some lame insults left.
Now if you can prove this, then do so! I could care less what
you and your inbred cousins think.... I want to know what you can
prove.....
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
what part of your silliness can you back up with proof?
If you can't, then run along I'm finished with you for now! :-))
You've said you were finished with me once. I knew you couldn't
resist. And your insults are really desperate. I thought
right-wingers
Post by George Spelvin
Post by HOD
Post by George Spelvin
were better at attacks.
Are you still "finished" with me or are you going to resume with lame
insults?
You're just so easy..... I hate to give you up!
I knew it. You just couldn't resist. You said you were "finished" with
me until I provided proof. You apparently are not finished with me so I
must have provided the proof you were looking for. Glad I could help.
Now that I've proved you wrong, I'm finished with you.
I never doubted for a sec that you'd end up running for cover.... you're
nothing but a mental lightweight trying to make it in a mature adult world!
The only thing you've been able to prove is exactly how ignorant you
are.....and I might add, you did that extremely well! :-))

best to ya!
John S. Dyson
2004-01-04 09:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Spelvin
Post by DDB
Post by George Spelvin
Then the terrorists already got their wish in 2000. We ended up with a
craven, moronic, AWOL, convicted criminal instead of the people's
choice. Maybe in 2004 we will get real honesty and integrity in the
White House.
Hey you make some good points now let's look at them individually and try to
1. It is a proven fact that Clinton left the country to avoid the draft and
it is pure fiction that Bush was AWOL,
1-year gap in Bush's Guard duty
You don't have credible sourcing. Remember: you are believing what
you want to believe about Bush (whatever wet dream that it gives
you.) Clinton's behavior is fully in public record.

When charges are filed and at least a plea bargain (like BJ Clinton,
the ultimate insider, but caught telling lies as a court officer),
then you might start being able to make a credible argument.

If you need to believe something bad about GWB, just to make him
seem almost as bad as BJ Clinton, then do whatever blows your skirt up.

John
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