Discussion:
So What is a "Progressive?" And Why is that Important?
(too old to reply)
Sarah
2004-06-12 17:42:11 UTC
Permalink
6-12-2004

So What is a "Progressive?" And Why is that Important?
Filed under:

a.. Vision
b.. Base Works
- JoeLibertelli @ 8:00 am



Are you a Progressive? A Teddy Roosevelt Progressive? A Eugene Debs
Progressive? A LaFollette Progressive? A Henry Wallace Progresive? A
McCarthy Era codeword-for-communist "Progressive"? A Bill Clinton/Democratic
Leadership Council/Progessive Policy Institute Progressive? A Take Back
America Progressive? A Progressive Republican?



I think that defining what we mean by "progressive" - and, in particular,
distinguishing it from "liberal," is an important step in communicating our
views with our neighbors and others with whom we hope to work. If we, as
Progressive activists, hope to gain people's respect and cooperation in our
efforts, we need to be clear and up front about our ideology - as well as
our specific organizational goals, strategies, tactics and decision-making
processes.



I would appreciate feedback on the following definition:



- Progressives call for a society based upon ecological balance and sanity,
one which seeks peace and security through the vigorous pursuit of justice
and an end to poverty and discrimination, and one which insists government
be transparent, participatory, and the result of true democracy.



- Progressive ideology is based on reality: environmental and public health
science, relevant social history, and a clear-eyed view of how public
policies affect both people and the environment - especially our most
vulnerable people and ecosystems.



- Progressives, unlike their Liberal cousins, believe the American and world
political and economic systems, despite their many strengths, are deeply
flawed and in need of nonviolent transformation, not mere reform.



- Progressives know that when one takes any issue sufficiently seriously -
homelessness, inner-city education, ocean ecology, sexism, energy policy,
workplace exploitation, prison overcrowding, AIDS or cancer research, the
war in Iraq, US policy on Israel, etc - both the interconnections with other
issues and the need for a real transformation become clear.



- Progressives can be distinguished from modern American "Liberals" (many of
whom now call themselves Progressives!) who either tend to see the problems
in isolation or are so daunted by the prospect of systemic change that they
act as if the problems are isolated - perhaps to maintain their sanity!
Progressives see a wide variety of problems as symptoms of a deep malaise.
They are active side by side with Liberals and even with Conservatives on
these individual problems, but are aware of, and maintain hope of ultimately
being effective on, the deeper, systemic ones as well.



- Liberals are reformers. Progressives are evolutionaries - nonviolent
radicals who seek to address underlying causes of problems at their roots
while striving to model their vision for a transformed and healthy society
through daily activism and healthy and joyous personal and interpersonal
life.



Comments (5) »
1. Here's the simplest distinction that springs to my mind:

When confronted with social or economic problems, the following groups offer
the following solutions:

Reaganites/neocons - throw money at the rich (taken from the middle and
lower)
classic conservatives - tighten the belts of all (even those who have no
belts)
liberals - throw money at the poor (taken from the rich)
progressives - throw people power at the problems and work together to solve
them

Is that a fair summary? To me "progressive" is a Rosie-the-Riveter "we can
do it!" mentality.

Comment by volneysimmons - 6-12-2004 @ 8:46 am

2. This is an overly simplistic comment, BUT:
Liberals point out the problems of the world.
Progressives point out the solutions.

Comment by Clarity - 6-12-2004 @ 9:42 am

3. I like the definition of a progressive as someone who sees the
interconnectedness of policies and issues (global thinkers) and the need for
fundamental, systemic change. I like the emphasis on the practicality of the
approaches, embracing "best practice" and sound solutions, rising above
special interests to honor the greater good. However, the definition of a
liberal given here did not resonate with me. I found it confusing - maybe
because I am new to activism. It sounds like an insider's thing that the
general public wouldn't get. It also sounded like an internal division or
conflict. I personally do not think we need to distinguish ourselves from
"liberals" as many people view that term in a very positive light, more
along the lines of the dictionary definition: favoring progress or reform;
free from prejudice, tolerant; characterized by generosity; ample or
abundant. I have always considered myself a liberal, but did not identify at
all with the definition proposed in the post. For me, the most important
distinction to make about Progressives is that we are not some "fringe" band
of radicals. We are mainstream, intelligent, inclusive, and everywhere! We
are united by our values: justice, community, peace, health, environment and
education.

Comment by Jodi - 6-12-2004 @ 9:50 am

4. I am concerned that the definition of "Liberal" is too defensive.
Liberals were demonized by the right because the right learned how to frame
the language and issues of politics in this country over the last
generation. What a liberal believes in as the best solution can change over
time, just like the ideology of the conservatives has changed from Goldwater
(e.g. balanced budgets, etc.) to Bush (e.g. deficits don't matter, etc.). I
say we dont't let the radical right define us and "steal" our labels. I say,
now that there seems to be a growth of some new backbone in some parts of
the liberal or progressive community, that we define our selves, and proudly
and vociferously stand up for ourselves.

If a progressive is one who wants to compromise with the far right so that
social security and medicare will end up privatized, and we will all be on
our own again, then I remain a liberal and proud of it.

Comment by Bruce Ballmer - 6-12-2004 @ 10:08 am

5. I agree with you, Bruce, and was coming back to say exactly the same
thing. You said it much better than I would have! Thanks.

Comment by Jodi - 6-12-2004 @ 10:14 am


Add you comments at:

http://blog.progressivevote.org/index.php?p=6#more-6
v***@verizon.net
2004-06-12 19:36:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:42:11 -0500, "Sarah"
<***@virtualnow.mailshell.com> wrote:

I can tell you what a "progressive" is. It is a person who, dispite
the demonstrable failure of collectivist economic policies, still
deludes himself into believing that somehow it can work if only the
right people were in charge. It is a person who hates capitalism,
private property, technology, competition and economic freedom (and
therefore social freedom).

Progressives are communists. Communism is a system in which no human
rights can possibly exist since the government holds all the cards,
makes all the rules and calls all the shots. Communism cannot
function in a democracy, nor can it function in a society with
property rights, patents and copyrights.

Communism has been responsible for the deaths of millions of people by
their own governments in the USSR, China, Cuba, North Korea, Poland
and many other smaller countries. It has held vast amounts of people
in abject poverty, terror and hopelessness, and it is "progressives"
who want to institute this horror worldwide.

A progressive is either evil or a sweet talking idiot.

Bob Curtin
Post by Sarah
6-12-2004
So What is a "Progressive?" And Why is that Important?
a.. Vision
b.. Base Works
Are you a Progressive? A Teddy Roosevelt Progressive? A Eugene Debs
Progressive? A LaFollette Progressive? A Henry Wallace Progresive? A
McCarthy Era codeword-for-communist "Progressive"? A Bill Clinton/Democratic
Leadership Council/Progessive Policy Institute Progressive? A Take Back
America Progressive? A Progressive Republican?
I think that defining what we mean by "progressive" - and, in particular,
distinguishing it from "liberal," is an important step in communicating our
views with our neighbors and others with whom we hope to work. If we, as
Progressive activists, hope to gain people's respect and cooperation in our
efforts, we need to be clear and up front about our ideology - as well as
our specific organizational goals, strategies, tactics and decision-making
processes.
- Progressives call for a society based upon ecological balance and sanity,
one which seeks peace and security through the vigorous pursuit of justice
and an end to poverty and discrimination, and one which insists government
be transparent, participatory, and the result of true democracy.
- Progressive ideology is based on reality: environmental and public health
science, relevant social history, and a clear-eyed view of how public
policies affect both people and the environment - especially our most
vulnerable people and ecosystems.
- Progressives, unlike their Liberal cousins, believe the American and world
political and economic systems, despite their many strengths, are deeply
flawed and in need of nonviolent transformation, not mere reform.
- Progressives know that when one takes any issue sufficiently seriously -
homelessness, inner-city education, ocean ecology, sexism, energy policy,
workplace exploitation, prison overcrowding, AIDS or cancer research, the
war in Iraq, US policy on Israel, etc - both the interconnections with other
issues and the need for a real transformation become clear.
- Progressives can be distinguished from modern American "Liberals" (many of
whom now call themselves Progressives!) who either tend to see the problems
in isolation or are so daunted by the prospect of systemic change that they
act as if the problems are isolated - perhaps to maintain their sanity!
Progressives see a wide variety of problems as symptoms of a deep malaise.
They are active side by side with Liberals and even with Conservatives on
these individual problems, but are aware of, and maintain hope of ultimately
being effective on, the deeper, systemic ones as well.
- Liberals are reformers. Progressives are evolutionaries - nonviolent
radicals who seek to address underlying causes of problems at their roots
while striving to model their vision for a transformed and healthy society
through daily activism and healthy and joyous personal and interpersonal
life.
Comments (5) »
When confronted with social or economic problems, the following groups offer
Reaganites/neocons - throw money at the rich (taken from the middle and
lower)
classic conservatives - tighten the belts of all (even those who have no
belts)
liberals - throw money at the poor (taken from the rich)
progressives - throw people power at the problems and work together to solve
them
Is that a fair summary? To me "progressive" is a Rosie-the-Riveter "we can
do it!" mentality.
Liberals point out the problems of the world.
Progressives point out the solutions.
3. I like the definition of a progressive as someone who sees the
interconnectedness of policies and issues (global thinkers) and the need for
fundamental, systemic change. I like the emphasis on the practicality of the
approaches, embracing "best practice" and sound solutions, rising above
special interests to honor the greater good. However, the definition of a
liberal given here did not resonate with me. I found it confusing - maybe
because I am new to activism. It sounds like an insider's thing that the
general public wouldn't get. It also sounded like an internal division or
conflict. I personally do not think we need to distinguish ourselves from
"liberals" as many people view that term in a very positive light, more
along the lines of the dictionary definition: favoring progress or reform;
free from prejudice, tolerant; characterized by generosity; ample or
abundant. I have always considered myself a liberal, but did not identify at
all with the definition proposed in the post. For me, the most important
distinction to make about Progressives is that we are not some "fringe" band
of radicals. We are mainstream, intelligent, inclusive, and everywhere! We
are united by our values: justice, community, peace, health, environment and
education.
4. I am concerned that the definition of "Liberal" is too defensive.
Liberals were demonized by the right because the right learned how to frame
the language and issues of politics in this country over the last
generation. What a liberal believes in as the best solution can change over
time, just like the ideology of the conservatives has changed from Goldwater
(e.g. balanced budgets, etc.) to Bush (e.g. deficits don't matter, etc.). I
say we dont't let the radical right define us and "steal" our labels. I say,
now that there seems to be a growth of some new backbone in some parts of
the liberal or progressive community, that we define our selves, and proudly
and vociferously stand up for ourselves.
If a progressive is one who wants to compromise with the far right so that
social security and medicare will end up privatized, and we will all be on
our own again, then I remain a liberal and proud of it.
5. I agree with you, Bruce, and was coming back to say exactly the same
thing. You said it much better than I would have! Thanks.
http://blog.progressivevote.org/index.php?p=6#more-6
neptune3
2004-06-12 21:40:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:42:11 -0500, "Sarah"
Post by Sarah
- Progressives call for a society based upon ecological balance and sanity,
This must mean Progressives are for having laws against polluting.
I agree with that. The "sanity" part is self serving. Many peoples one
way definitions mean that those who disagree with them are for
insanity.
Post by Sarah
one which seeks peace and security through the vigorous pursuit of justice
What group says it is for injustice and is opposed to peace and
security? It's meaningless.
Post by Sarah
and an end to poverty
What group is for poverty? Telling what exactly Progressives plan to
do would be better.
Post by Sarah
and discrimination,
I am against Progressives. Men are different from women, and Whites
are different from Blacks. Pretending there is no difference is the
root of the problems. And then they have the gall to discriminate
against White men through affirmative action.
Post by Sarah
and one which insists government
be transparent, participatory, and the result of true democracy.
If you think the majority opinion is so wonderful what will you do
about groups who control the media and therefore control that majority
opinion?
What group says their ideology is based on fantasy?
Post by Sarah
environmental and public health
science, relevant social history, and a clear-eyed view of how public
policies affect both people and the environment - especially our most
vulnerable people and ecosystems.
I agree with you about the environment.
Post by Sarah
- Progressives, unlike their Liberal cousins, believe the American and world
political and economic systems, despite their many strengths, are deeply
flawed and in need of nonviolent transformation, not mere reform.
True. But you didn't say what you plan to do.
Post by Sarah
- Progressives know that when one takes any issue sufficiently seriously -
homelessness, inner-city education, ocean ecology, sexism, energy policy,
workplace exploitation, prison overcrowding, AIDS or cancer research, the
war in Iraq, US policy on Israel, etc - both the interconnections with other
issues and the need for a real transformation become clear.
You are not being clear at all.
Post by Sarah
- Progressives can be distinguished from modern American "Liberals" (many of
whom now call themselves Progressives!) who either tend to see the problems
in isolation or are so daunted by the prospect of systemic change that they
act as if the problems are isolated - perhaps to maintain their sanity!
Progressives see a wide variety of problems as symptoms of a deep malaise.
They are active side by side with Liberals and even with Conservatives on
these individual problems, but are aware of, and maintain hope of ultimately
being effective on, the deeper, systemic ones as well.
Are your beliefs so embarrassing that you can't be clear?
Post by Sarah
- Liberals are reformers. Progressives are evolutionaries - nonviolent
radicals who seek to address underlying causes of problems at their roots
while striving to model their vision for a transformed and healthy society
through daily activism and healthy and joyous personal and interpersonal
life.
They also aviod telling exactly what they plan to do.
Post by Sarah
Comments (5) »
When confronted with social or economic problems, the following groups offer
Reaganites/neocons - throw money at the rich (taken from the middle and
lower)
They do serve the rich.
Post by Sarah
classic conservatives - tighten the belts of all (even those who have no
belts)
I won't argue with that.
Post by Sarah
liberals - throw money at the poor (taken from the rich)
True
Post by Sarah
progressives - throw people power at the problems and work together to solve
them
"People power" won't solve anything. There is always some group
behind the people and leading them. Progressives want to be that
group. H.L. Mencken said democracy was the art of running the circus
from the monkey cage.
Post by Sarah
Is that a fair summary?
No. You say a couple things about ecology and money power that are
true. Then you add a lot of vague notions while being as clear as mud.
Post by Sarah
To me "progressive" is a Rosie-the-Riveter "we can
do it!" mentality.
Liberals point out the problems of the world.
Progressives point out the solutions.
You suggest you will outlaw polluting. That is good. But greens
have been compared to watermellons. Green on the outside, and red on
the inside.


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