Discussion:
2 Vets write Letter to Soldiers in Iraq
(too old to reply)
Sarah
2003-09-28 13:58:33 UTC
Permalink
Open Letter
To Soldiers Who Are Involved in the Occupation of Iraq



http://departments.juniata.edu/pacs/lettertosoldiers.html

by Guy Grossman and James Skelly
September 26, 2003




We write this letter because we have both been military officers
during conflicts that descended into a moral abyss and from which we
struggled to emerge with our humanity intact. We know the moral
dilemmas that some of you have begun to confront. Those of you now in
Iraq may have begun to wonder about the purpose of the war, the
occupation that has followed, and why so many of the Iraqi people want
you to leave as soon as possible.

It is clear that many of you have been propelled into situations that
may haunt you for the rest of your lives. You undoubtedly did not
expect to be killing Iraqi civilians as now happens on a regular basis
because of the difficulties you face in an occupation that was so
poorly planned by those in authority above you. We understand the
difficulty in distinguishing between friend and foe in tense
situations like the one that led to the killing and wounding of a
number of policemen near Fullaja earlier this month.

You have undoubtedly begun to feel rage at the seemingly senseless
deaths of your comrades, and your inability to distinguish who is the
enemy among the civilians you have come to 'liberate.' From time to
time we're sure that some of you may want to take revenge for the
deaths of your fellow soldiers.

We urge you to step back from such sentiments because the lives of
innocent people will be placed at further risk, and your very humanity
itself will be threatened. Political leaders who think a certain
number of your deaths are 'acceptable,' as are a larger number of
Iraqi civilian deaths, have placed you in these hellish conditions.
Remember, they are ultimately responsible for putting you in the
situations you face on a daily basis. As you know, despite what the
Pentagon told everyone prior to deployment, armed conflict in Iraq is
likely to continue for much longer despite the 'victory' George Bush
seemed to declare when he landed on the USS Lincoln.

Some of your fellow soldiers may not experience any moral dilemmas as
a result of what they are doing. As with the US soldier who was
pictured on the front page of a British newspaper soon after the
initial invasion with "KILL 'EM ALL," in red paint to look like blood
on his helmet, there are some who may be enthusiastic about killing.
If you have doubts about the actions you are ordered to undertake, you
will probably be tempted to keep them to yourself in such an
environment. Should you voice your doubts, you are likely to be met
with verbal or physical harassment, and even formal disciplinary
procedures.

In these circumstances, there are a number of things that you should
know. Most people in the world understood that Saddam Hussein was a
tyrannical dictator who had killed and debased significant numbers of
people who lived under his rule. However, most people throughout the
world also understood that the method the US government chose to
remove Saddam was without international sanction, was informed by
other less lofty motivations, and has resulted in the killing of
significant numbers of innocent people. There were more pacific
alternatives.

We were opposed to the war, and the armed occupation that has
followed, not only because so many innocents continue to be killed,
but because it is creating greater insecurity throughout the world.
The war has further undermined an international order based on the
rule of law and has fostered a global regime of disorder in which the
indiscriminate use of force is often the arbitrator. Just as the
occupation of the Palestinian territories by the Israeli army has
contributed to greater insecurity throughout Israel, so too is the
occupation of Iraq creating greater threats to security through out
the world, including the United States.

You should also be aware that people all over the world, and a
significant number in the United States as well, will understand your
actions as truly heroic should you say "No!" to further participation
in both the murderous occupation that you and your comrades now face
and the murky moral swamp that the war has wrought. It is now clear
that the justifications for war that political leaders in the US and
Britain used had little basis in reality and they had been advised
that intelligence indicated that war was likely to create more
terrorism in the world, not less.

In addition, you should know that a substantial body of legal opinion
argues that the invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law,
and at least theoretically, the leaders of the United States and
Britain could face war crimes charges in the future. Although this is
probably unlikely to occur because of the power of their positions,
should the killing of civilians become so widespread that it presents
a political problem for them, you can be assured that you or some of
your comrades will be brought up on charges for what will be defined
as 'crimes.' It may or may not happen with regard to the killing of
the policemen in Falluja, but our guess is that it will happen soon
following another unfortunate incident.

Philip Caputo, who wrote "Rumor of War" about his experience in
Vietnam as a platoon leader, was brought up on murder charges for the
killing of two civilians by the unit under his command during his tour
in Vietnam. The Army wanted to try him as a common criminal - a
murderer - because the civilian deaths could not be revealed as the
inevitable product of that war for to do so would have revealed much
more. Caputo came to understand that the truth could not be spoken of
because it would have raised many moral questions including "the
question of the morality of the American intervention in Vietnam." As
with that war, you should have little doubt that any actions that you
engage in during your tour in Iraq that are politically problematic
for the US government will be blamed on you, because the morality of
what the government is engaged in through its invasion and occupation
of Iraq cannot be allowed to be challenged. In other words, you should
"watch your back!"

Should your moral doubts become so strong that you know, as each of us
did with regard to Vietnam on the one hand, and the Israeli occupation
of Palestinian territories on the other, that your very humanity is at
risk, we urge you to consider refusing orders that you can no longer
in conscience carry out. One of us refused to serve in the territories
occupied by Israel because he knew he could no longer carry out
military orders that had little to do with the safety of his country.
He could no longer justify the use of indiscriminate military force in
the name of unjust political policies, well disguised. He could not
tolerate his country's use of himself as a means serving an unjust
cause. He could no longer live with the outcome of his actions.

You probably know that as an American soldier, the Uniform Code of
Military Justice requires that you obey only "lawful orders" of your
military superiors. Consequently, it is within your legal rights to
refuse "unlawful orders" - these provisions were put in the Uniform
Code so that soldiers could not, as German soldiers did following
World War II, try to absolve themselves of guilt for war crimes by
saying that they were "just following orders." You can also apply for
discharge by conscientiously objecting to war. Rather than serve in
Vietnam, one of us refused orders by filing for discharge as a
conscientious objector, and when the Pentagon refused the application,
sued the Secretary of Defense in federal court for being illegally
held by the US military.

Should particular military actions, or the over all conduct of the
occupation, strike you as being of questionable legality, you also
have other options. Following the analysis by Telford Taylor, chief US
counsel at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunals following World War II,
that according to the standards developed at Nuremberg, members of the
US Joint Chiefs of Staff might be guilty of war crimes in Vietnam, one
of us, along with other US junior officers, requested that the
Secretary of Defense convene a Military Court of Inquiry to determine
if the Joint Chiefs qualified as war criminals. We asked for this
under Article 135 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 135
provides a legal mechanism that allows those subject to military law
who believe that other military personnel have violated the Uniform
Code to be formally investigated and ultimately brought to justice.
Your superiors won't like it, to say the least, but it's perfectly
legal and will encourage them to insure that their behavior does not
descend further into the moral quagmire that has emerged in Iraq.

Finally, we would urge you to recognize that you are not alone with
regard to the moral dilemmas that you are facing. Each of us initially
faced our moral questions as individuals. But we soon realized that
many of our comrades had similar qualms about what we were being
ordered to do. We both were instrumental in helping to form
organizations of military personnel who were opposed to the policies
of our respective governments. Although opposition among US military
personnel was a significant factor in ending the Vietnam War, and it
still remains to be seen whether Courage to Refuse will help to end
the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, such efforts do
help to bring the moral and political issues involved into the clear
light of day.

On a personal level, speaking to the truth of what we have seen as
humans has helped to preserve our humanity in circumstances that
conspired to deny it. Whatever you do, try to maintain a degree of
civility with your buddies and superior officers. They are in this
too. There are procedures to follow when you express moral concerns,
which if they are professional soldiers, they will follow as well. If
they act unprofessionally and verbally or physically harass you,
recognize that it is probably a result of their own anxieties about
the moral dilemmas that political leaders have forced them to confront
as well.

It is our hope that you will be able to confront these dilemmas
clearly and with the support of as many of your comrades as have
courage similar to yours. Although we would disagree with it, you may
decide that the morally correct course is to continue participating in
the occupation. Regardless of what you decide, it is our fervent
desire that your actions are chosen in the bright light of moral
illumination and political understanding. We also hope that you
ultimately return to your home with your humanity enriched, rather
than diminished.
--
"When our children fail competency tests the schools lose funding.
When our missiles fail tests, we increase funding." ---Dennis
Kucinich
Coty Melvin
2003-09-28 16:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Which looney from The Nation wrote this? It is SO NOT written by US Army
Officers.
God you people are ill.
Post by Sarah
Open Letter
To Soldiers Who Are Involved in the Occupation of Iraq
http://departments.juniata.edu/pacs/lettertosoldiers.html
by Guy Grossman and James Skelly
September 26, 2003
We write this letter because we have both been military officers
during conflicts that descended into a moral abyss and from which we
struggled to emerge with our humanity intact. We know the moral
dilemmas that some of you have begun to confront. Those of you now in
Iraq may have begun to wonder about the purpose of the war, the
occupation that has followed, and why so many of the Iraqi people want
you to leave as soon as possible.
It is clear that many of you have been propelled into situations that
may haunt you for the rest of your lives. You undoubtedly did not
expect to be killing Iraqi civilians as now happens on a regular basis
because of the difficulties you face in an occupation that was so
poorly planned by those in authority above you. We understand the
difficulty in distinguishing between friend and foe in tense
situations like the one that led to the killing and wounding of a
number of policemen near Fullaja earlier this month.
You have undoubtedly begun to feel rage at the seemingly senseless
deaths of your comrades, and your inability to distinguish who is the
enemy among the civilians you have come to 'liberate.' From time to
time we're sure that some of you may want to take revenge for the
deaths of your fellow soldiers.
We urge you to step back from such sentiments because the lives of
innocent people will be placed at further risk, and your very humanity
itself will be threatened. Political leaders who think a certain
number of your deaths are 'acceptable,' as are a larger number of
Iraqi civilian deaths, have placed you in these hellish conditions.
Remember, they are ultimately responsible for putting you in the
situations you face on a daily basis. As you know, despite what the
Pentagon told everyone prior to deployment, armed conflict in Iraq is
likely to continue for much longer despite the 'victory' George Bush
seemed to declare when he landed on the USS Lincoln.
Some of your fellow soldiers may not experience any moral dilemmas as
a result of what they are doing. As with the US soldier who was
pictured on the front page of a British newspaper soon after the
initial invasion with "KILL 'EM ALL," in red paint to look like blood
on his helmet, there are some who may be enthusiastic about killing.
If you have doubts about the actions you are ordered to undertake, you
will probably be tempted to keep them to yourself in such an
environment. Should you voice your doubts, you are likely to be met
with verbal or physical harassment, and even formal disciplinary
procedures.
In these circumstances, there are a number of things that you should
know. Most people in the world understood that Saddam Hussein was a
tyrannical dictator who had killed and debased significant numbers of
people who lived under his rule. However, most people throughout the
world also understood that the method the US government chose to
remove Saddam was without international sanction, was informed by
other less lofty motivations, and has resulted in the killing of
significant numbers of innocent people. There were more pacific
alternatives.
We were opposed to the war, and the armed occupation that has
followed, not only because so many innocents continue to be killed,
but because it is creating greater insecurity throughout the world.
The war has further undermined an international order based on the
rule of law and has fostered a global regime of disorder in which the
indiscriminate use of force is often the arbitrator. Just as the
occupation of the Palestinian territories by the Israeli army has
contributed to greater insecurity throughout Israel, so too is the
occupation of Iraq creating greater threats to security through out
the world, including the United States.
You should also be aware that people all over the world, and a
significant number in the United States as well, will understand your
actions as truly heroic should you say "No!" to further participation
in both the murderous occupation that you and your comrades now face
and the murky moral swamp that the war has wrought. It is now clear
that the justifications for war that political leaders in the US and
Britain used had little basis in reality and they had been advised
that intelligence indicated that war was likely to create more
terrorism in the world, not less.
In addition, you should know that a substantial body of legal opinion
argues that the invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law,
and at least theoretically, the leaders of the United States and
Britain could face war crimes charges in the future. Although this is
probably unlikely to occur because of the power of their positions,
should the killing of civilians become so widespread that it presents
a political problem for them, you can be assured that you or some of
your comrades will be brought up on charges for what will be defined
as 'crimes.' It may or may not happen with regard to the killing of
the policemen in Falluja, but our guess is that it will happen soon
following another unfortunate incident.
Philip Caputo, who wrote "Rumor of War" about his experience in
Vietnam as a platoon leader, was brought up on murder charges for the
killing of two civilians by the unit under his command during his tour
in Vietnam. The Army wanted to try him as a common criminal - a
murderer - because the civilian deaths could not be revealed as the
inevitable product of that war for to do so would have revealed much
more. Caputo came to understand that the truth could not be spoken of
because it would have raised many moral questions including "the
question of the morality of the American intervention in Vietnam." As
with that war, you should have little doubt that any actions that you
engage in during your tour in Iraq that are politically problematic
for the US government will be blamed on you, because the morality of
what the government is engaged in through its invasion and occupation
of Iraq cannot be allowed to be challenged. In other words, you should
"watch your back!"
Should your moral doubts become so strong that you know, as each of us
did with regard to Vietnam on the one hand, and the Israeli occupation
of Palestinian territories on the other, that your very humanity is at
risk, we urge you to consider refusing orders that you can no longer
in conscience carry out. One of us refused to serve in the territories
occupied by Israel because he knew he could no longer carry out
military orders that had little to do with the safety of his country.
He could no longer justify the use of indiscriminate military force in
the name of unjust political policies, well disguised. He could not
tolerate his country's use of himself as a means serving an unjust
cause. He could no longer live with the outcome of his actions.
You probably know that as an American soldier, the Uniform Code of
Military Justice requires that you obey only "lawful orders" of your
military superiors. Consequently, it is within your legal rights to
refuse "unlawful orders" - these provisions were put in the Uniform
Code so that soldiers could not, as German soldiers did following
World War II, try to absolve themselves of guilt for war crimes by
saying that they were "just following orders." You can also apply for
discharge by conscientiously objecting to war. Rather than serve in
Vietnam, one of us refused orders by filing for discharge as a
conscientious objector, and when the Pentagon refused the application,
sued the Secretary of Defense in federal court for being illegally
held by the US military.
Should particular military actions, or the over all conduct of the
occupation, strike you as being of questionable legality, you also
have other options. Following the analysis by Telford Taylor, chief US
counsel at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunals following World War II,
that according to the standards developed at Nuremberg, members of the
US Joint Chiefs of Staff might be guilty of war crimes in Vietnam, one
of us, along with other US junior officers, requested that the
Secretary of Defense convene a Military Court of Inquiry to determine
if the Joint Chiefs qualified as war criminals. We asked for this
under Article 135 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 135
provides a legal mechanism that allows those subject to military law
who believe that other military personnel have violated the Uniform
Code to be formally investigated and ultimately brought to justice.
Your superiors won't like it, to say the least, but it's perfectly
legal and will encourage them to insure that their behavior does not
descend further into the moral quagmire that has emerged in Iraq.
Finally, we would urge you to recognize that you are not alone with
regard to the moral dilemmas that you are facing. Each of us initially
faced our moral questions as individuals. But we soon realized that
many of our comrades had similar qualms about what we were being
ordered to do. We both were instrumental in helping to form
organizations of military personnel who were opposed to the policies
of our respective governments. Although opposition among US military
personnel was a significant factor in ending the Vietnam War, and it
still remains to be seen whether Courage to Refuse will help to end
the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, such efforts do
help to bring the moral and political issues involved into the clear
light of day.
On a personal level, speaking to the truth of what we have seen as
humans has helped to preserve our humanity in circumstances that
conspired to deny it. Whatever you do, try to maintain a degree of
civility with your buddies and superior officers. They are in this
too. There are procedures to follow when you express moral concerns,
which if they are professional soldiers, they will follow as well. If
they act unprofessionally and verbally or physically harass you,
recognize that it is probably a result of their own anxieties about
the moral dilemmas that political leaders have forced them to confront
as well.
It is our hope that you will be able to confront these dilemmas
clearly and with the support of as many of your comrades as have
courage similar to yours. Although we would disagree with it, you may
decide that the morally correct course is to continue participating in
the occupation. Regardless of what you decide, it is our fervent
desire that your actions are chosen in the bright light of moral
illumination and political understanding. We also hope that you
ultimately return to your home with your humanity enriched, rather
than diminished.
--
"When our children fail competency tests the schools lose funding.
When our missiles fail tests, we increase funding." ---Dennis
Kucinich
gaffo
2003-09-29 03:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Coty Melvin
Which looney from The Nation wrote this? It is SO NOT written by US Army
Officers.
God you people are ill.
Post by Sarah
Open Letter
To Soldiers Who Are Involved in the Occupation of Iraq
http://departments.juniata.edu/pacs/lettertosoldiers.html
by Guy Grossman and James Skelly
September 26, 2003
We write this letter because we have both been military officers
during conflicts that descended into a moral abyss and from which we
struggled to emerge with our humanity intact. We know the moral
dilemmas that some of you have begun to confront. Those of you now in
Iraq may have begun to wonder about the purpose of the war, the
occupation that has followed, and why so many of the Iraqi people want
you to leave as soon as possible.
It is clear that many of you have been propelled into situations that
may haunt you for the rest of your lives. You undoubtedly did not
expect to be killing Iraqi civilians as now happens on a regular basis
because of the difficulties you face in an occupation that was so
poorly planned by those in authority above you. We understand the
difficulty in distinguishing between friend and foe in tense
situations like the one that led to the killing and wounding of a
number of policemen near Fullaja earlier this month.
You have undoubtedly begun to feel rage at the seemingly senseless
deaths of your comrades, and your inability to distinguish who is the
enemy among the civilians you have come to 'liberate.' From time to
time we're sure that some of you may want to take revenge for the
deaths of your fellow soldiers.
We urge you to step back from such sentiments because the lives of
innocent people will be placed at further risk, and your very humanity
itself will be threatened. Political leaders who think a certain
number of your deaths are 'acceptable,' as are a larger number of
Iraqi civilian deaths, have placed you in these hellish conditions.
Remember, they are ultimately responsible for putting you in the
situations you face on a daily basis. As you know, despite what the
Pentagon told everyone prior to deployment, armed conflict in Iraq is
likely to continue for much longer despite the 'victory' George Bush
seemed to declare when he landed on the USS Lincoln.
Some of your fellow soldiers may not experience any moral dilemmas as
a result of what they are doing. As with the US soldier who was
pictured on the front page of a British newspaper soon after the
initial invasion with "KILL 'EM ALL," in red paint to look like blood
on his helmet, there are some who may be enthusiastic about killing.
If you have doubts about the actions you are ordered to undertake, you
will probably be tempted to keep them to yourself in such an
environment. Should you voice your doubts, you are likely to be met
with verbal or physical harassment, and even formal disciplinary
procedures.
In these circumstances, there are a number of things that you should
know. Most people in the world understood that Saddam Hussein was a
tyrannical dictator who had killed and debased significant numbers of
people who lived under his rule. However, most people throughout the
world also understood that the method the US government chose to
remove Saddam was without international sanction, was informed by
other less lofty motivations, and has resulted in the killing of
significant numbers of innocent people. There were more pacific
alternatives.
We were opposed to the war, and the armed occupation that has
followed, not only because so many innocents continue to be killed,
but because it is creating greater insecurity throughout the world.
The war has further undermined an international order based on the
rule of law and has fostered a global regime of disorder in which the
indiscriminate use of force is often the arbitrator. Just as the
occupation of the Palestinian territories by the Israeli army has
contributed to greater insecurity throughout Israel, so too is the
occupation of Iraq creating greater threats to security through out
the world, including the United States.
You should also be aware that people all over the world, and a
significant number in the United States as well, will understand your
actions as truly heroic should you say "No!" to further participation
in both the murderous occupation that you and your comrades now face
and the murky moral swamp that the war has wrought. It is now clear
that the justifications for war that political leaders in the US and
Britain used had little basis in reality and they had been advised
that intelligence indicated that war was likely to create more
terrorism in the world, not less.
In addition, you should know that a substantial body of legal opinion
argues that the invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law,
and at least theoretically, the leaders of the United States and
Britain could face war crimes charges in the future. Although this is
probably unlikely to occur because of the power of their positions,
should the killing of civilians become so widespread that it presents
a political problem for them, you can be assured that you or some of
your comrades will be brought up on charges for what will be defined
as 'crimes.' It may or may not happen with regard to the killing of
the policemen in Falluja, but our guess is that it will happen soon
following another unfortunate incident.
Philip Caputo, who wrote "Rumor of War" about his experience in
Vietnam as a platoon leader, was brought up on murder charges for the
killing of two civilians by the unit under his command during his tour
in Vietnam. The Army wanted to try him as a common criminal - a
murderer - because the civilian deaths could not be revealed as the
inevitable product of that war for to do so would have revealed much
more. Caputo came to understand that the truth could not be spoken of
because it would have raised many moral questions including "the
question of the morality of the American intervention in Vietnam." As
with that war, you should have little doubt that any actions that you
engage in during your tour in Iraq that are politically problematic
for the US government will be blamed on you, because the morality of
what the government is engaged in through its invasion and occupation
of Iraq cannot be allowed to be challenged. In other words, you should
"watch your back!"
Should your moral doubts become so strong that you know, as each of us
did with regard to Vietnam on the one hand, and the Israeli occupation
of Palestinian territories on the other, that your very humanity is at
risk, we urge you to consider refusing orders that you can no longer
in conscience carry out. One of us refused to serve in the territories
occupied by Israel because he knew he could no longer carry out
military orders that had little to do with the safety of his country.
He could no longer justify the use of indiscriminate military force in
the name of unjust political policies, well disguised. He could not
tolerate his country's use of himself as a means serving an unjust
cause. He could no longer live with the outcome of his actions.
You probably know that as an American soldier, the Uniform Code of
Military Justice requires that you obey only "lawful orders" of your
military superiors. Consequently, it is within your legal rights to
refuse "unlawful orders" - these provisions were put in the Uniform
Code so that soldiers could not, as German soldiers did following
World War II, try to absolve themselves of guilt for war crimes by
saying that they were "just following orders." You can also apply for
discharge by conscientiously objecting to war. Rather than serve in
Vietnam, one of us refused orders by filing for discharge as a
conscientious objector, and when the Pentagon refused the application,
sued the Secretary of Defense in federal court for being illegally
held by the US military.
Should particular military actions, or the over all conduct of the
occupation, strike you as being of questionable legality, you also
have other options. Following the analysis by Telford Taylor, chief US
counsel at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunals following World War II,
that according to the standards developed at Nuremberg, members of the
US Joint Chiefs of Staff might be guilty of war crimes in Vietnam, one
of us, along with other US junior officers, requested that the
Secretary of Defense convene a Military Court of Inquiry to determine
if the Joint Chiefs qualified as war criminals. We asked for this
under Article 135 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 135
provides a legal mechanism that allows those subject to military law
who believe that other military personnel have violated the Uniform
Code to be formally investigated and ultimately brought to justice.
Your superiors won't like it, to say the least, but it's perfectly
legal and will encourage them to insure that their behavior does not
descend further into the moral quagmire that has emerged in Iraq.
Finally, we would urge you to recognize that you are not alone with
regard to the moral dilemmas that you are facing. Each of us initially
faced our moral questions as individuals. But we soon realized that
many of our comrades had similar qualms about what we were being
ordered to do. We both were instrumental in helping to form
organizations of military personnel who were opposed to the policies
of our respective governments. Although opposition among US military
personnel was a significant factor in ending the Vietnam War, and it
still remains to be seen whether Courage to Refuse will help to end
the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, such efforts do
help to bring the moral and political issues involved into the clear
light of day.
On a personal level, speaking to the truth of what we have seen as
humans has helped to preserve our humanity in circumstances that
conspired to deny it. Whatever you do, try to maintain a degree of
civility with your buddies and superior officers. They are in this
too. There are procedures to follow when you express moral concerns,
which if they are professional soldiers, they will follow as well. If
they act unprofessionally and verbally or physically harass you,
recognize that it is probably a result of their own anxieties about
the moral dilemmas that political leaders have forced them to confront
as well.
It is our hope that you will be able to confront these dilemmas
clearly and with the support of as many of your comrades as have
courage similar to yours. Although we would disagree with it, you may
decide that the morally correct course is to continue participating in
the occupation. Regardless of what you decide, it is our fervent
desire that your actions are chosen in the bright light of moral
illumination and political understanding. We also hope that you
ultimately return to your home with your humanity enriched, rather
than diminished.
--
"When our children fail competency tests the schools lose funding.
When our missiles fail tests, we increase funding." ---Dennis
Kucinich
hey smartass......read below:

Biographical Notes:
Guy Grossman is a graduate Philosophy student at Tel-Aviv University. He
serves as a second Lieutenant in the Israeli reserve forces, was one of
the founders of “Courage to Refuse”, a group of now over 500 soldiers
who refuse to serve in the Palestinians Occupied Territories for
conscientious reasons.

James Skelly is a Senior Fellow at the Baker Institute for Peace and
Conflict Studies at Juniata College, and Academic Coordinator for Peace
& Justice Programs at Brethren Colleges Abroad. As a Lieutenant, United
States Navy, he sued former Defense Secretary Melvin Laird in the US
federal courts rather than comply with orders to Vietnam, and was a
founder on the US west coast of The Concerned Officers Movement, and The
Concerned Military.
Coty Melvin
2003-09-29 04:28:11 UTC
Permalink
ROTFLMAO!!!
Post by gaffo
Guy Grossman is a graduate Philosophy student at Tel-Aviv University. He
serves as a second Lieutenant in the Israeli reserve forces, was one of
the founders of “Courage to Refuse”, a group of now over 500 soldiers
who refuse to serve in the Palestinians Occupied Territories for
conscientious reasons.
James Skelly is a Senior Fellow at the Baker Institute for Peace and
Conflict Studies at Juniata College, and Academic Coordinator for Peace
& Justice Programs at Brethren Colleges Abroad. As a Lieutenant, United
States Navy, he sued former Defense Secretary Melvin Laird in the US
federal courts rather than comply with orders to Vietnam, and was a
founder on the US west coast of The Concerned Officers Movement, and The
Concerned Military.
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