Discussion:
Despite critics, tax cuts work... Business is soaring!
(too old to reply)
HOD
2004-01-03 16:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004


ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work

BY ALISON FRASER


Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who insist,
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts approved
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of negative
spin.

When the news came in November that economic growth in the third quarter of
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've seen in
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless recovery.'' Not
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are unemployed.
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year and
likely next.

Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the unemployment rate
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.

What's significant about these figures is their signal that the economy is
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches now all
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.

Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the expectations of
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in particular
show why the recovery is structurally sound:

. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months and at
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a crucial
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they need more
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident and
that they believe that they can increase their activities without undue
risk.

. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as well as
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in 20
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.

. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more than
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month after
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the employment
side.

While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy throughout the
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what cause job
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.

What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to languish,
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our economy has
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.

Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes everything
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer much
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy has
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we moved
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide more
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.

Incentives for businesses

One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?

Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the fact
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing the
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand and
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more attractive.

As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make the tax
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their living by
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely good
news for the rest of us.

Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute for
Economic Policy Studies.

©2003 The Baltimore Sun
Dan
2004-01-03 16:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around 10%.
The real unemployment picture:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who insist,
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts approved
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of negative
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third quarter of
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've seen in
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless recovery.'' Not
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are unemployed.
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year and
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the unemployment rate
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the economy is
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches now all
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the expectations of
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in particular
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months and at
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a crucial
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they need more
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident and
that they believe that they can increase their activities without undue
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as well as
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in 20
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more than
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month after
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the employment
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy throughout the
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what cause job
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to languish,
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our economy has
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes everything
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer much
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy has
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we moved
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide more
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the fact
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing the
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand and
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more attractive.
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make the tax
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their living by
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely good
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute for
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
Baxel40
2004-01-03 17:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Good answer... and interesting article.
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around 10%.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who insist,
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of negative
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third quarter
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've seen in
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless recovery.''
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are unemployed.
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year and
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the unemployment
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the economy is
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches now
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the expectations
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months and
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they need
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident and
that they believe that they can increase their activities without undue
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as well as
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in 20
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more than
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy throughout
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what cause
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to languish,
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our economy
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer much
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy has
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we moved
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide more
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the fact
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing the
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand and
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more attractive.
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make the
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their living by
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute for
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
HOD
2004-01-03 17:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these dreamed up
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years past..
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.

The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs since
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's time and
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!

Let me sum it up for you!

More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are making more
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!

Check it out yourself:

Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx

The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around 10%.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who insist,
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of negative
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third quarter
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've seen in
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless recovery.''
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are unemployed.
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year and
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the unemployment
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the economy is
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches now
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the expectations
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months and
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they need
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident and
that they believe that they can increase their activities without undue
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as well as
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in 20
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more than
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy throughout
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what cause
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to languish,
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our economy
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer much
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy has
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we moved
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide more
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the fact
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing the
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand and
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more attractive.
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make the
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their living by
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute for
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
Dan
2004-01-03 17:39:54 UTC
Permalink
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP. Why
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor force
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing money?
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must add
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So let's
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office, yet
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million jobs
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective use
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON bag of
tricks.
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these dreamed up
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years past..
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs since
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's time and
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are making more
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third quarter
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've seen in
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless recovery.''
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year and
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches now
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the expectations
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months and
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they need
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident and
that they believe that they can increase their activities without undue
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more than
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy throughout
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what cause
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to languish,
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our economy
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer much
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy has
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we moved
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide more
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the fact
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing the
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand and
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make the
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their living by
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute for
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
HOD
2004-01-03 19:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP. Why
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor force
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing money?
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must add
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So let's
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office, yet
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million jobs
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective use
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON bag of
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the historical
data records it this way;

Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your buddies
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last, Gomer)

Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says if
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do like, I
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead of even
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?... that's the
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide jobs for
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a genius.
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic boom in
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's cigar-humping
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no but I do
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now I'm
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other nine
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job.... but
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is doing a fine
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to successful
smart conservatives!
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these
dreamed
Post by Dan
up
Post by HOD
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years
past..
Post by HOD
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs since
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's time and
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are making
more
Post by HOD
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third
quarter
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've
seen
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless
recovery.''
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've added
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth is
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches
now
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators are up
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the
expectations
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they
need
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that they believe that they can increase their activities without
undue
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest levels in
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of both
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and sustainable.
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more
than
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good news: Month
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy
throughout
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what
cause
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to
languish,
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer
much
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy
has
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we
moved
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this new
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the
fact
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their
living
Post by Dan
by
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's definitely
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute
for
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
Dan
2004-01-03 20:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Your rant in no way addressed my criticisms of either your selective use of
facts, the problems with unemployment under Dubya, the lack of jobs keeping
up with the growing number of workers, or those not in the labor force
anymore. On the other hand, as a good dittohead, your rant did bash Clinton.
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP. Why
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing money?
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must add
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the historical
data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your buddies
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last, Gomer)
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says if
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do like, I
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead of even
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?... that's the
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide jobs for
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a genius.
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic boom in
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no but I do
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now I'm
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other nine
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job.... but
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is doing a fine
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to successful
smart conservatives!
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these
dreamed
Post by Dan
up
Post by HOD
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years
past..
Post by HOD
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs since
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's time
and
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are making
more
Post by HOD
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is around
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax cuts
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third
quarter
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've
seen
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless
recovery.''
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there at a
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this year
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've
added
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These patches
now
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators
are
Post by HOD
up
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the
expectations
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six months
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means that a
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest in
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they
need
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more confident
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that they believe that they can increase their activities without
undue
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest
levels
Post by HOD
in
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of
both
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and
sustainable.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter, more
than
Month
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy
throughout
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what
cause
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to
languish,
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer
much
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our economy
has
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we
moved
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this
new
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore the
fact
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for bringing
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to expand
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made existing
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect to
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we make
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their
living
Post by Dan
by
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's
definitely
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe Institute
for
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-03 22:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Ok, DAN, I want you to answer this question, or eat your own shit, ok bub?

Interest rates are low
GDP is at an all time high
Housing starts at an all time high
Productivity is at an all time high
Jobs are being added to the payrolls
Inflation is down
Stockmarket is VERY bullish right now, even commodity trades like Alcoa
(aluminum) are up ~70%.

+++++

QUESTION:

Now, with these economic engines all pointing in the right direction,
SPECIFICALLY WHAT POLICY should Bush put in place to create MORE JOBS?

+++++

Answer the fucking question, or you will look like a total dipshit to this
group. Don't just spout off the usual liberal bumpersticker bullshit.
Provide us with FACTS from non-partisan economists to back up what you are
saying.

I am so sick of this dis-ingenous "BUSH LOST 3 MILLION JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABS"
bullshit, I want you, DAN, to enlighten us. Please tell us JUST what
policies Bush could be doing to increase employment. You libs are just SO
ridiculously partisan that EVERYONE KNOWS the economy is doing well, but you
guys can't be like, "Ok, Bush is doing x, y, and z well, but needs work
here." All you do is repeat like retarded parrots, "Bush lost 3 million
Jobs! Bush lost three million jobs!" "Four legs good! Two legs bad!" And
this is why libs are looking more and more to be opportunists at America's
expense and why you guys will CONTINUE your pitiful death rattle until your
party splits, and/or a third party emerges as a viable alternative to the
GOP.
Dan
2004-01-04 06:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Ok, DAN, I want you to answer this question, or eat your own shit, ok bub?
You right-wing ditto-monkeys have such an unmistable air of class about you.
Post by GENOMEMAN
Interest rates are low
GDP is at an all time high
Housing starts at an all time high
Productivity is at an all time high
Jobs are being added to the payrolls
Inflation is down
Stockmarket is VERY bullish right now, even commodity trades like Alcoa
(aluminum) are up ~70%.
+++++
Now, with these economic engines all pointing in the right direction,
SPECIFICALLY WHAT POLICY should Bush put in place to create MORE JOBS?
Cancel tax cuts for the rich - give that money to the middle and lower
classes to spend NOW. Also use some of that money to balance the deficit,
which is nothing more than a tax on the next generation. That will
confidence to the world on the stability of our markets and our currency,
thus boosting the dollar and lowering the chances for a rate increase
near-term. While we're at it, maybe we could stop acting like we're going to
invade any country that looks at us the wrong way. There, I told you. Now
you can ignore the common sense given to you free of charge and get back to
your hysterical gutter-level ditto-rant.
Post by GENOMEMAN
+++++
Answer the fucking question, or you will look like a total dipshit to this
group. Don't just spout off the usual liberal bumpersticker bullshit.
Provide us with FACTS from non-partisan economists to back up what you are
saying.
I am so sick of this dis-ingenous "BUSH LOST 3 MILLION
JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABS"
Post by GENOMEMAN
bullshit, I want you, DAN, to enlighten us. Please tell us JUST what
policies Bush could be doing to increase employment. You libs are just SO
ridiculously partisan that EVERYONE KNOWS the economy is doing well, but you
guys can't be like, "Ok, Bush is doing x, y, and z well, but needs work
here." All you do is repeat like retarded parrots, "Bush lost 3 million
Jobs! Bush lost three million jobs!" "Four legs good! Two legs bad!" And
this is why libs are looking more and more to be opportunists at America's
expense and why you guys will CONTINUE your pitiful death rattle until your
party splits, and/or a third party emerges as a viable alternative to the
GOP.
HOD
2004-01-04 15:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by GENOMEMAN
Ok, DAN, I want you to answer this question, or eat your own shit, ok bub?
You right-wing ditto-monkeys have such an unmistable air of class about you.
Post by GENOMEMAN
Interest rates are low
GDP is at an all time high
Housing starts at an all time high
Productivity is at an all time high
Jobs are being added to the payrolls
Inflation is down
Stockmarket is VERY bullish right now, even commodity trades like Alcoa
(aluminum) are up ~70%.
+++++
Now, with these economic engines all pointing in the right direction,
SPECIFICALLY WHAT POLICY should Bush put in place to create MORE JOBS?
Cancel tax cuts for the rich - give that money to the middle and lower
classes to spend NOW.
Heh Heh..... take money from the successful and give it in the form of
'hand-outs' to those that aren't!
Yea that's the way of a liberal for sure....
Post by Dan
Also use some of that money to balance the deficit, which is nothing more
than a tax on the next generation. That > will confidence to the world on
the stability of our markets and our currency,
Post by Dan
thus boosting the dollar and lowering the chances for a rate increase
near-term. While we're at it, maybe we could stop acting like we're going to
invade any country that looks at us the wrong way. There, I told you. Now
you can ignore the common sense given to you free of charge and get back to
your hysterical gutter-level ditto-rant.
Looks like a plan for utter destruction!
Post by Dan
Post by GENOMEMAN
+++++
Answer the fucking question, or you will look like a total dipshit to this
group. Don't just spout off the usual liberal bumpersticker bullshit.
Provide us with FACTS from non-partisan economists to back up what you are
saying.
I am so sick of this dis-ingenous "BUSH LOST 3 MILLION
JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABS"
Post by GENOMEMAN
bullshit, I want you, DAN, to enlighten us. Please tell us JUST what
policies Bush could be doing to increase employment. You libs are just SO
ridiculously partisan that EVERYONE KNOWS the economy is doing well, but
you
Post by GENOMEMAN
guys can't be like, "Ok, Bush is doing x, y, and z well, but needs work
here." All you do is repeat like retarded parrots, "Bush lost 3 million
Jobs! Bush lost three million jobs!" "Four legs good! Two legs bad!" And
this is why libs are looking more and more to be opportunists at America's
expense and why you guys will CONTINUE your pitiful death rattle until
your
Post by GENOMEMAN
party splits, and/or a third party emerges as a viable alternative to the
GOP.
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-04 15:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by GENOMEMAN
Ok, DAN, I want you to answer this question, or eat your own shit, ok bub?
You right-wing ditto-monkeys have such an unmistable air of class about you.
Post by GENOMEMAN
Interest rates are low
GDP is at an all time high
Housing starts at an all time high
Productivity is at an all time high
Jobs are being added to the payrolls
Inflation is down
Stockmarket is VERY bullish right now, even commodity trades like Alcoa
(aluminum) are up ~70%.
+++++
Now, with these economic engines all pointing in the right direction,
SPECIFICALLY WHAT POLICY should Bush put in place to create MORE JOBS?
Cancel tax cuts for the rich - give that money to the middle and lower
classes to spend NOW.
So, you mean, give taxes to the middle and lower classes that they never
actually had taken from them to begin with? Isn't that welfare?

Welfare was VERY successful, suuuuuure. Ok bub.

Just about EVERY leading economist had agreed that these tax cuts have
spurred the economy into high gear.

Oh, have you ever worked for someone poorer than you? I thought so.

Also use some of that money to balance the deficit,
Post by Dan
which is nothing more than a tax on the next generation.
Only if libs are in charge!
HOD
2004-01-03 23:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps you're upset because "I just calls 'em as I sees 'em"....... The
facts don't lie and I just deal in facts... I know, it's a foreign concept
to liberal losers but it works well for the right side! I have reported the
data exactly to the letter the way it is recorded by the Bureau Of Labor
Statestics... now if you know of an error in my numbers, please support your
claim..... if not, please run along! :-))
Post by Dan
Your rant in no way addressed my criticisms of either your selective use of
facts, the problems with unemployment under Dubya, the lack of jobs keeping
up with the growing number of workers, or those not in the labor force
anymore. On the other hand, as a good dittohead, your rant did bash Clinton.
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP. Why
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must add
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the historical
data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your buddies
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says if
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do
like,
Post by Dan
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?... that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a genius.
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no but
I
Post by Dan
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now I'm
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other nine
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job.... but
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these
dreamed
Post by Dan
up
Post by HOD
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years
past..
Post by HOD
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs
since
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's time
and
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are making
more
Post by HOD
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is
around
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those who
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax
cuts
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third
quarter
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've
seen
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless
recovery.''
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there
at
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this
year
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've
added
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of 2002.
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job growth
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These
patches
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
now
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators
are
Post by HOD
up
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the
expectations
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six
months
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means
that
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that, they
need
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more
confident
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that they believe that they can increase their activities without
undue
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing sector as
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest
levels
Post by HOD
in
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance of
both
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and
sustainable.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter,
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
than
Month
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on the
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy
throughout
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are what
cause
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to
languish,
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which includes
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not offer
much
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920, when we
moved
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in this
new
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and provide
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
fact
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for
bringing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to
expand
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made
existing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect
to
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we
make
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their
living
Post by Dan
by
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's
definitely
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe
Institute
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
for
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
Dan
2004-01-04 06:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Wow, you went a post without mentioning Clinton. Does that make you eligible
for Ditto-Mensa?
Post by HOD
Perhaps you're upset because "I just calls 'em as I sees 'em"....... The
facts don't lie and I just deal in facts... I know, it's a foreign concept
to liberal losers but it works well for the right side! I have reported the
data exactly to the letter the way it is recorded by the Bureau Of Labor
Statestics... now if you know of an error in my numbers, please support your
claim..... if not, please run along! :-))
Post by Dan
Your rant in no way addressed my criticisms of either your selective use
of
Post by Dan
facts, the problems with unemployment under Dubya, the lack of jobs
keeping
Post by Dan
up with the growing number of workers, or those not in the labor force
anymore. On the other hand, as a good dittohead, your rant did bash
Clinton.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP.
Why
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took
office,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce.
Selective
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the historical
data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says
if
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do
like,
Post by Dan
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?... that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no but
I
Post by Dan
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now I'm
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other nine
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job....
but
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these
dreamed
Post by Dan
up
Post by HOD
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for years
past..
Post by HOD
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics, that
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs
since
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's
time
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
and
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are
making
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read and
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is
around
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those
who
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax
cuts
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running out of
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the third
quarter
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that we've
seen
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless
recovery.''
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there
at
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout this
year
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and we've
added
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of
2002.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
What's significant about these figures is their signal that the
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job
growth
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These
patches
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
now
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic indicators
are
Post by HOD
up
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the
expectations
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of growth in
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six
months
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means
that
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't invest
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that,
they
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
need
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more
confident
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that they believe that they can increase their activities
without
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
undue
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing
sector
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest
levels
Post by HOD
in
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance
of
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
both
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and
sustainable.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter,
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
than
Month
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on
the
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy
throughout
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are
what
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
cause
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to
languish,
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing new.
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which
includes
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail and
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not
offer
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
much
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920,
when
Post by HOD
we
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
moved
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in
this
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
new
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and
provide
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot ignore
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
fact
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for
bringing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to
expand
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made
existing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly expect
to
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we
make
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their
living
Post by Dan
by
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's
definitely
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe
Institute
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
for
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
HOD
2004-01-04 15:46:56 UTC
Permalink
You couldn't come up with an error in my numbers...... could you?
You couldn't produce.... now please run along! :-))
Post by Dan
Wow, you went a post without mentioning Clinton. Does that make you eligible
for Ditto-Mensa?
Post by HOD
Perhaps you're upset because "I just calls 'em as I sees 'em"....... The
facts don't lie and I just deal in facts... I know, it's a foreign concept
to liberal losers but it works well for the right side! I have reported
the
Post by HOD
data exactly to the letter the way it is recorded by the Bureau Of Labor
Statestics... now if you know of an error in my numbers, please support
your
Post by HOD
claim..... if not, please run along! :-))
Post by Dan
Your rant in no way addressed my criticisms of either your selective use
of
Post by Dan
facts, the problems with unemployment under Dubya, the lack of jobs
keeping
Post by Dan
up with the growing number of workers, or those not in the labor force
anymore. On the other hand, as a good dittohead, your rant did bash
Clinton.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP.
Why
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the
labor
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce.
Post by Dan
So
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took
office,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4
million
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce.
Selective
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the
neoCON
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says
if
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do
like,
Post by Dan
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic
boom
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but
Post by HOD
I
Post by Dan
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other
nine
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job....
but
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is
doing
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Common sense would tell you (oops, I forgot for a sec) that these
dreamed
Post by Dan
up
Post by HOD
numbers only have integrity when compared to the same data for
years
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
past..
Post by HOD
I'm talking official records, not some liberals wet-dream.
The facts are, as published by the Bureau Of Labor Statistics,
that
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
President Bush has grown "total employment" some 2.8 million jobs
since
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
coming to office. The average work week is less than in Clinton's
time
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
and
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the weekly pay is almost 10% more!
Let me sum it up for you!
More folks are woking, they are working less hours and they are
making
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
money....under Bush! Life is truly good if you are able to read
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comprehend the facts!
Less Hours: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly hours were 34.1
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly hours are 33.9
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Money: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Weekly Earnings were $477.74
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 Weekly Earnings are $524.09
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
More Jobs: Under Bush
Dec 2000 "Total" Employment was 135.8 million
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/History/empsit.01052001.news
Nov 2003 "Total Employment was 138.6 million
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Less Inflation: Under Bush
Dec 2000 Inflation Rate was 3.39%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Oct 2003 Inflation Rate is 2.04%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
The truth hurts! Huh Dan?
Post by Dan
Jobs? Jobs? Has anyone seen the jobs (jobs, that is, BESIDES the
lowest-paying service type jobs)? The real unemployment rate is
around
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
10%.
Post by Dan
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1229-01.htm
Post by HOD
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
ECONOMY
Despite critics, tax cuts work
BY ALISON FRASER
Bad news: The economy is booming. Bad news, that is, for those
who
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
insist,
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, that the tax
cuts
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
approved
Post by HOD
earlier last year aren't working. The critics are running
out
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
negative
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
spin.
When the news came in November that economic growth in the
third
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
quarter
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
the year had surged to 8.2 percent -- the best growth that
we've
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
seen
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
nearly 20 years -- they had a ready retort: It's a ''jobless
recovery.''
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Not
Post by HOD
anymore. Are we where we should be? No. But we're moving there
at
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
remarkable pace. More jobs are available, and fewer people are
unemployed.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
This crop of good news promises economic growth throughout
this
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
year
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
likely next.
Job growth has increased during the last four months, and
we've
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
added
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
328,000 new jobs to the economy. In related good news, the
unemployment
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
rate
Post by HOD
has slipped to 5.9 percent, erasing the poor performance of
2002.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
What's significant about these figures is their signal that
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
economy
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
not merely poised for recovery, but in the midst of it. Job
growth
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
is
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
usually the last patch in the economic recovery quilt. These
patches
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
now
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
all
Post by HOD
appear to be in place. With few exceptions, economic
indicators
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
are
Post by HOD
up
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
across the board.
Indeed, the stellar growth of the last quarter outpaced the
expectations
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
of
Post by HOD
even the most optimistic forecasters. Three sources of
growth
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
particular
Post by HOD
. Business investment has grown significantly in the last six
months
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
at
Post by HOD
an especially good clip in the last three months, which means
that
Post by Dan
a
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
crucial
Post by HOD
part of the economy is picking up steam. Businesses don't
invest
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
in
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
equipment unless they plan on producing more, and to do that,
they
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
need
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
people. This is a critical signal that businesses are more
confident
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that they believe that they can increase their activities
without
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
undue
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
risk.
. Business activity is on the rise for the manufacturing
sector
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
well
Post by HOD
as
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
the service sector. Manufacturing activity is at its highest
levels
Post by HOD
in
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
20
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
years, with new orders and production soaring. The performance
of
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
both
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
sectors indicates that the recovery is well under way and
sustainable.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
. Business productivity grew 9.4 percent in the third quarter,
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
than
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
twice the normal growth rate. But there is even more good
Month
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
after
Post by HOD
month, productivity gains are accompanied by signs of life on
the
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
employment
Post by HOD
side.
While consumer spending has done much to sustain the economy
throughout
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
recovery, business investment, activity and productivity are
what
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
cause
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
job
Post by HOD
growth, and these missing links now appear to be in place.
What about manufacturing jobs? Unfortunately, they continue to
languish,
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
with a drop in November of 17,000 jobs. But this is nothing
new.
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Manufacturing jobs have been declining for a generation, but
our
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
not come to the screeching halt that some predicted.
Instead, better-paying jobs in the service sector, which
includes
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
everything
Post by HOD
from financial, banking, health and legal services to retail
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
construction, have replaced manufacturing jobs. This may not
offer
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
much
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
comfort for those in manufacturing, but the fact is that our
economy
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
has
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
evolved structurally just as it did between 1890 and 1920,
when
Post by HOD
we
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
moved
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing one. Jobs in
this
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
new
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
framework are more knowledge-based, offer higher wages and
provide
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
more
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
freedom to climb the ladder of economic prosperity.
Incentives for businesses
One question remains: Why are we getting this good news now?
Many factors are involved, of course, but critics cannot
ignore
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
fact
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
that the tax cuts are working. They built a foundation for
bringing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
recovery full swing by providing incentives for businesses to
expand
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
and
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
invest. Tax relief has lowered the cost of capital and made
existing
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
enterprises more profitable and investment and expansion more
attractive.
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
As the economy continues to grow, we can almost certainly
expect
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
to
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
experience even stronger jumps in employment (especially if we
make
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
the
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
tax
Post by HOD
cuts permanent). That may be bad news for those who earn their
living
Post by Dan
by
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
opposing tax cuts and other pro-growth strategies, but it's
definitely
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
good
Post by HOD
news for the rest of us.
Alison Fraser is director of the Heritage Foundation's Roe
Institute
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
for
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Economic Policy Studies.
©2003 The Baltimore Sun
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-03 22:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way UP. Why
don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing money?
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must add
150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the historical
data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your buddies
attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last, Gomer)
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that says if
you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that you do like, I
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead of even
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?... that's the
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide jobs for
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed on
multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a genius.
Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest economic boom in
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no but I do
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now I'm
sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the other nine
dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle the job.... but
most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in office is doing a fine
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to successful
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the telecomm
meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other companies to lay off
by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And under whose watch did Worldcomm
rise to power and fudge their numbers? You got it. Clinton.
False Document
2004-01-03 22:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
And on whose watch has nothing been done to remediate the damage or even
to prevent it from happening again? You got it. Bush.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden.
It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!"
George W. Bush, September 13, 2001


"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I
really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

Substitute "Hussein" or "WMD" for "OBL" and it still works.
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-03 23:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by False Document
And on whose watch has nothing been done to remediate the damage or even
to prevent it from happening again? You got it. Bush.
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than Clinton ever
did to clean that shit up.
Mr. N
2004-01-04 02:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than Clinton ever
did to clean that shit up.
Prove it.
--
-My Real Name
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-04 02:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. N
Post by GENOMEMAN
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than Clinton
ever
Post by GENOMEMAN
did to clean that shit up.
Prove it.
That would be like trying to convince you water is wet. Do the research
yourself and arrive at your own conclusion. Anything I put up here no matter
how good the source you will just argue with.
Post by Mr. N
--
-My Real Name
Mr. N
2004-01-04 02:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Mr. N
Post by GENOMEMAN
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than Clinton
ever
Post by GENOMEMAN
did to clean that shit up.
Prove it.
That would be like trying to convince you water is wet.
No, it would be more like you posting a couple of cites to back up your
claim.
Post by GENOMEMAN
Do the research yourself and arrive at your own conclusion. Anything I put
up here no matter
Post by GENOMEMAN
how good the source you will just argue with.
Try me.

Or just dodge - which is what you appear to be doing here.

Or we could do as Michael Moore does - admit that neither political party
has the market cornered on corporate responsibility, and hold our leaders
accountable no matter what party the belong to. That's the one I like.
--
-My Real Name
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-04 03:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Start here...

Get back to us.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/query.html?col=colpics&qt=Corporate+Fraud+

Prosecuting Corporate Fraud. The Task Force has assisted the investigation
in virtually every corporate fraud case brought by federal prosecutors over
the last year. For example, the FBI, Postal Inspection Service, and IRS have
bolstered the effectiveness of the Justice Department's 450 prosecutors and
130 investigators, auditors, and paralegals who have worked on corporate
fraud matters. With unparalleled coordination by Executive branch agencies,
federal prosecutors, as of May 31, 2003:

a.. Obtained over 250 corporate fraud convictions or guilty pleas,
including at least 25 former chief executive officers;

b.. Charged 354 defendants with some type of corporate fraud crime in
connection with 169 filed cases;

c.. Investigated over 320 potential corporate fraud matters, involving in
excess of 500 individuals and companies; and

d.. Obtained restitution, fines, and forfeitures in excess of $85 million
since inception of the Task Force, in connection with cases involving
securities fraud, commodities fraud, investment fraud, and advanced fee
schemes, conduct which is often part of corporate wrongdoing.
Aggressively Pursuing Civil and Regulatory Enforcement. Civil and regulatory
departments and agencies on the Task Force are stepping-up coordination to
protect investors and consumers from corporate fraud.


a.. Securities and Exchange Commission: During fiscal year 2002---the year
in which the Task Force was created --- the SEC filed almost 50% more
financial fraud and reporting cases than in the previous fiscal year. From
October 1, 2002 through June 30, 2003, the SEC filed 443 enforcement
actions, 137 of which involved financial fraud or reporting. Eleven
companies have been suspended from trading, and the assets of 30 companies
have been frozen. In addition, the SEC has sought to bar 124 offending
corporate executives and directors from again serving in publicly traded
companies. Under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which the President signed into law
on July 30, 2002, the SEC is employing important new tools to improve
corporate responsibility and protect America's shareholders and workers.
And, the SEC is sharing its securities expertise and knowledge with other
Task Force members in a substantial number of cases.

b.. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission: FERC's numerous investigations
into the manipulation of energy markets and violations of standards of
conduct have resulted in settlements of more than $35 million on behalf of
energy customers. FERC has revoked the marketing authorizations for Enron
affiliates and is pursuing similar actions against other market
participants. FERC's actions were facilitated by coordinated actions and
oversight of the Corporate Fraud Task Force.

c.. Commodity Futures Trading Commission: CFTC's investigations in the
last year resulted in 58 enforcement actions against 157 defendants. Among
other things, the CFTC has investigated the actions of more than 30 energy
companies. In its enforcement actions, the CFTC obtained 34 permanent
injunctions and 17 restraining orders to freeze assets and preserve books
and records. It also obtained 58 cease and desist orders in administrative
proceedings. Proceedings initiated by the CFTC have yielded more than $133
million in civil monetary penalties and $105 million in restitution and
disgorgement, aided by the work of the Corporate Fraud Task Force.

d.. Department of Labor (Employee Benefits Security Administration): EBSA
is aggressively protecting employee benefit plans from the effects of
corporate fraud. In a notable case, EBSA recently filed a civil complaint
against the Enron Corporation and its executive officers for failing to
prudently protect Enron workers' retirement assets. Much of the underlying
investigative work was accomplished by members of the Task Force.
Now compare this with Clintoon's efforts (none to pathetic).
Post by HOD
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Mr. N
Post by GENOMEMAN
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than
Clinton
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Mr. N
ever
Post by GENOMEMAN
did to clean that shit up.
Prove it.
That would be like trying to convince you water is wet.
No, it would be more like you posting a couple of cites to back up your
claim.
Post by GENOMEMAN
Do the research yourself and arrive at your own conclusion. Anything I put
up here no matter
Post by GENOMEMAN
how good the source you will just argue with.
Try me.
Or just dodge - which is what you appear to be doing here.
Or we could do as Michael Moore does - admit that neither political party
has the market cornered on corporate responsibility, and hold our leaders
accountable no matter what party the belong to. That's the one I like.
--
-My Real Name
False Document
2004-01-05 17:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Start here...
Get back to us.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/query.html?col=colpics&qt=Corporate+Fraud+
Nice story. No funding. Sorry.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden.
It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!"
George W. Bush, September 13, 2001


"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I
really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

Substitute "Hussein" or "WMD" for "OBL" and it still works.
False Document
2004-01-05 17:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Mr. N
Post by GENOMEMAN
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than Clinton
ever
Post by GENOMEMAN
did to clean that shit up.
Prove it.
That would be like trying to convince you water is wet. Do the
research yourself and arrive at your own conclusion. Anything I put up
here no matter how good the source you will just argue with.
IOW, you are lying.

http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=2989

Take, for example, Bush's cornerstone Executive Order establishing the
Corporate Fraud Task Force. It sounds good. But there's no additional
funding or staff, just a directive that a bunch of government agencies
talk to each other more often about the things you'd expect they'd be
talking to each other about a lot these days - securities fraud, mail and
wire fraud, money laundering, and tax fraud.

Or take Bush's call to increase the SEC's budget by $100 million. That's
a pittance compared to what SEC observers say is needed. Just two weeks
ago, the House voted 422-4 to increase the SEC's grossly underfunded $430
million budget by 77%. Bush's increase barely matches a request made in
March by SEC Chair Harvey Pitt to increase the commission's staff and
pay. A request, by the way, that was denied.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/4348120.htm%22

Muzzling the SEC
PRESIDENT IS IRRESPONSIBLY TRYING TO CUT AGENCY'S BUDGET BY 25%, WHICH
WOULD CRIPPLE FIGHT AGAINST CORPORATE FRAUD

IT was always a little hard to believe that President Bush really meant
it when he vowed to get tough on corporate crime. He first tried to
derail a sweeping corporate reform law in the Senate and threw his weight
behind it only after a sudden rash of corporate scandals backed him into
a political corner.

So it's not surprising that Bush now is trying to chip away at that law.
He's using the oldest trick in the politician's book: cutting from the
budget money needed to enforce the law.

That's irresponsible.

Bush is trying to downsize by more than a quarter the budget for the
Securities and Exchange Commission authorized by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act
of 2002, the tough corporate reform law enacted last summer.

The SEC, whose job is to police the financial markets, has long been
underfunded. During much of the 1990s, as investors jumped into the
market in unprecedented numbers, Congress doled out meager budget
increases that barely covered raises for the SEC's overworked staff.
Under pressure from the generous and politically powerful accounting
industry, Congress repeatedly threatened the SEC with outright budget
cuts unless it became more business-friendly.

Lacking resources and political backing, securities cops were left unable
to police crimes they knew were taking place. It's no wonder that
corporate criminals schemed to defraud investors without fear of getting
caught.

The Sarbanes-Oxley Act was supposed to fix this. A sharp increase in the
SEC's budget would mean more securities cops on the beat. It would mean a
cornerstone of the legislation -- a new independent oversight board to
police the accounting industry -- would be established quickly. It would
mean investors could start to think again about trusting the financial
markets.

With Bush going back on promises for a sharply increased SEC budget --
and with Congress failing to pass a new federal budget -- the agency is
left, once again, unable to investigate many new cases. It risks finding
itself outgunned by corporate lawyers as existing cases go to trial. It
is unable to upgrade or replace computer systems destroyed at its New
York offices in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Plans for the accounting
oversight board are on ice.

Bush apparently thinks that anger over corporate scandals has faded.
Perhaps he reasons that with everyone focused on Iraq, no one will notice
his SEC-budget shenanigans.

Regardless, Bush is putting at risk the very credibility of corporate
reforms. By putting politics ahead of investors, he's exposing the
financial markets to another blow in confidence they can ill afford.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden.
It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!"
George W. Bush, September 13, 2001


"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I
really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

Substitute "Hussein" or "WMD" for "OBL" and it still works.
False Document
2004-01-05 16:59:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by False Document
And on whose watch has nothing been done to remediate the damage or
even to prevent it from happening again? You got it. Bush.
Please. Bush and SEC and Justice Dept have done 1,000 more than
Clinton ever did to clean that shit up.
Yeah? Like what?
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden.
It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!"
George W. Bush, September 13, 2001


"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I
really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

Substitute "Hussein" or "WMD" for "OBL" and it still works.
HOD
2004-01-03 23:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by False Document
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
And on whose watch has nothing been done to remediate the damage or even
to prevent it from happening again? You got it. Bush.
You should be a proud little liberal butt-sucker..... you have just posted
what may be the biggest lie to hit this newsgroup!.... what a simple minded
twit you are! :-))
Tempest
2004-01-04 20:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
CLINTON'S PENIS! CLINTON'S PENIS!

Fuckwad.


Blame Newt Gingrich for WorldCom
The former speaker of the house and his fellow Republican
Revolutionaries of 1994 are responsible for today's accounting scandals.

by Jason Pontin
June 28, 2002

http://www.redherring.com/columns/2002/friday/lastword062802.html

I am like one of those monomaniacs who button-hole you at
parties--ranting about bird-watching, say, and jabbing you in the chest.
I can't stop writing about corporate malfeasance.

But I can add something new, and controversial: I know who's responsible
for the fraudulent accounting that allowed WorldCom, Enron, Global
Crossing, and others to deceive investors.

It was Newt Gingrich--Newt, and the ideologically over-heated,
maniacally anti-government, anti-regulatory House Republicans who came
to office in the fall of 1994.

Here's why. In three specific cases--tort reform, the accounting of
options, and the separation of an accounting firm's audit and consulting
services--House Republicans successfully sought to block regulation that
would have made corporations transparent. Without Newt Gingrich, there
would have been no crisis in business and accounting, at least in this
form.

Take torts, for example. Tort-reform legislation to curb shareholder
lawsuits against companies and accountants was at the top of the agenda
of the pro-business Gingrich Republicans. Silicon Valley high-tech firms
aligned with the accounting industry to lobby the House of
Representatives and the Senate to pass a bill that would discourage
"frivolous" lawsuits. President Clinton vetoed the bill, called the
Private Securities and Litigation Reform Act of 1995, saying that it
would penalize investors with legitimate claims. However, the Senate
(although Democratic, eager to appease the then-powerful House
Republicans and show the nation that they were both pro-business and
anti-government) overturned the president's veto in December 1995.

Supporters of the legislation maintain that it was a much-needed brake
on runaway lawsuits, which threatened to damage accounting and
high-technology businesses. But fear of shareholder lawsuits would have
provided an important disincentive to the accounting irregularities that
allowed companies to misrepresent their earnings.

Or consider options accounting. In 1993, the Financial Accounting
Standards Board (FASB) proposed closing an accounting loophole that
allowed companies to avoid recording stock options on their balance
sheets. The proposal, needless to say, both alarmed and outraged
corporations. According to a Merrill Lynch study, expensing stock
options would have slashed profits among leading high-tech companies by
60 percent on average. Corporate America aligned with the accounting
industry to fight the FASB proposal. In 1994, both Democrats and
Republicans in the Senate voted down the proposal 88 to 9. And because
stock options were not (and are not still!) accounted for as expenses,
companies like Enron and WorldCom felt emboldened to misrepresent their
operating costs as off-the-books capital expenses. This little loophole
was the start of a kind of open season, one where FASB would not reform
the commonly accepted accounting principles; it said that the SEC would
not closely scrutinize audits; it was the start of a deregulatory
free-for-all. Indeed, it was the wild west.

As Jim Leisenring, the vice chairman of FASB from 1988 to 2000, recently
said on National Public Radio, "We switched from talking about 'Have we
accurately measured the option?' or 'Have we expensed the option on the
proper date?' to things like 'Western civilization will not exist
without stock options' or 'There won't be jobs anymore for people
without stock options.' ... People tried to take the argument away from
the accounting to be just plainly a political argument."

So, too, when Arthur Levitt, the chairman of the U.S. Securities and
Exchange Commission from 1993 to 2000, proposed separating the
consulting
and auditing business of accountants because they constituted a clear
conflict of interests, he was defeated by Gingrich-ite elements in the
Congress. Mr. Levitt has called this the greatest mistake in his years
at the SEC.

The Senate has proposed a tough-minded reform of FASB and America's
so-called "generally accepted principles of accounting." But will it
pass?
Unlikely. A Gingrich-ite president has said that he supports the much
softer House Bill.
--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Tempest
2004-01-04 20:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
CLINTON'S PENIS! CLINTON'S PENIS!

Fuckwad.


Loading Image...

We see that the "bubble" part begins with the total takeover of the
congress by the Gingrich Greedmiesters and their prancing and pompous
"Contract on America" which promised to relieve corporate thieves from
the pressure of shareholder lawsuits. Legislation which, BTW was vetoed
by Clinton and then overridden by the Gingrich Republican thieves.
Clinton's SEC chief, Arthur Levitt, proposed barring accounting firms
from consulting for firms they were simultaneously auditing. Levitt's
proposal was torpedoed by the Gingrich Republicans, And the lobbyist who
spearheaded the accounting industry's campaign against the Levitt
proposal was none other than Harvey Pitt, President Bush's pick to head
the SEC.

The Gingrich Congress wanting stock market numbers to indicate success
of their "Contract on America", ignored the warnings of "irrational
exuberance" from Alan Greenspan and then in 1997 added more gasoline on
the fire with a totally unneeded and unwarranted capital gains tax cut
that was reluctantly signed into law by Clinton.

The bottom line is that the underlying economy created by the Democratic
Congress by virtue of the 1993 tax legislation was sound and growing.
The Republicans torpedoed it with legislation in support of Corporate
malfeasance and financial gimmickry.

AND THEN CAME ALAN'S "PRICK" OF THE REPUBLICAN BUBBLE:

The fed started bumping the discount rate in mid 99 and moved it from
4.5% to 6% by the end of 2000

AND THEN CAME BUSH AND HIS TAX CUTTING AN MILITARY SPENDING DEPRESSION
INDUCER.

But more importantly, the Republicans controlled the House. And as it
became clear (during the presidential campaigns) that fighting the
siren song of tax cuts was not politically viable and that (more) tax
cuts to capital gains would not be in order, even the less astute money
holders joined the move from "investments" to interest bearing
instruments of "saving".

But even that was not the whole story. Mr. Republican Prancer also
announced his intent to throw money down the military rat-hole. And this
was as good as a promise to the bondholders that he would be putting
the nation back into deficits and that there would be plenty of new
bonds offered by the Republican government. There is nothing so
soothing and wonderful to a bondholder than an economy in the doldrums
and a government in deficit.

Other than the one lone senator that swapped parties to maintain the
illusion of something other than "The Central Committee", the Pugs have
had total control for the last 2 years. Republicans want us to forget
that the prosperity that ended with the end of the "Clinton Presidency",
also began during the "Clinton Presidency", and that investment in the
real economy accelerated during the "Clinton Presidency", and that the
government's balance sheet improved during the "Clinton Presidency", and
that we were not being drug into a continuing, on going, "war", "war",
"war" and more, and more military spending during the "Clinton
Presidency". And it is obvious to all that the fundamental problems in
our economy were caused by George Bush and his rubber stamp Republican
House of Representatives.
--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Tempest
2004-01-04 20:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
Post by Dan
You got it. Clinton.
CLINTON'S PENIS! CLINTON'S PENIS!

Fuckwad.


The Conservative Bubble Boys

By Robert L. Borosage
Tuesday, July 9, 2002; Page A21

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41779-2002Jul8.html

The bubble did it. Or so goes the newly fashionable, no-fault
explanation for the cascading corporation scandals now posing a clear
and present danger to the U.S. economy. "The '90s were a period of
excess," intones head White House economist Lawrence Lindsay.

Every economic bubble since the Dutch Tulip Mania in the 1500s has been
marked by scandal and crime. We were all swept up in the craze, captured
by the desire to get rich quick. Since we're all implicated, no one is
responsible. The market is coming back to earth; we'll sort out the few
"bad apples," the lawbreakers, and move on.

Bull. This bubbleology would allow conservatives to shirk responsibility
for what they have wrought. The fact is that after the "excesses" of the
1920s drove us into the Great Depression, there was no equivalent
epidemic of financial and political corruption for 50 years until the
current crime wave. That's because Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal put
cops on the beat to police corporations and regulate their behavior.

The Securities and Exchange Commission was created to review the books.
The Glass-Steagall Act separated investment houses from commercial banks
to end corrosive conflicts of interest. The Federal Trade Commission and
the Justice Department limited mergers and monopolies. Unions, some 30
percent of the workforce, made companies more responsible to their
workers.

It is no accident that the current wave of costly corporate scandals
followed the rise of modern conservatism to political power two decades
ago. Ronald Reagan governed while denigrating government as "the
problem, not the solution." He starved agencies of resources and placed
committed ideological opponents in charge of them. Reagan's Commerce
Department drew up a hit list of regulations resented by business ("the
Terrible 20"). And of course Reagan signed the law that deregulated the
savings and loans associations, while his appointee revoked requirements
that any S&L have 400 shareholders. The resulting infamies cost
taxpayers many billions.

The conservative assault on government reached fever pitch when Newt
Gingrich led the "perfectionist" caucus of the Republican right to take
over Congress. For Gingrich conservatives, government regulation was
creeping Stalinism. House Majority leader Dick Armey said that in the
New Deal and the Great Society, "you will find, with a difference only
in power and nerve the same sort of person who gave the world its Five
Year Plans and Great Leaps Forward -- the Soviet and Chinese
counterparts."

And it wasn't just rhetoric. "Regulatory agencies have run amok and need
to be reformed," said Rep. Tom DeLay of Texas, the House majority whip,
as he invited business lobbyists to detail the regulations they wanted
gutted.

A centerpiece of Gingrich's Contract With America was "securities
reform." Passed in 1995 over President Clinton's veto, the bill shielded
outside accountants and law firms from liability for false corporate
reporting, and made it more difficult for shareholders to bring suit
against fraudulent reporting. A flood of corporate misstatements has
followed, with nearly 1,000 companies restating misleading reports in
the past five years.

Then there were the compromised auditors of Enron and WorldCom, loathe
to risk lucrative consulting fees from the companies they audited. In
the 1990s, Clinton's SEC chairman, Arthur Levitt, waged a long and
bitter campaign to ban this basic conflict of interest. The accountants'
lobby -- led by one Harvey Pitt -- blocked the reforms, with Republicans
Billy Tauzin in the House and Phil Gramm, joined by New Democrats such
as Joe Lieberman, threatening to gut the SEC's budget if Levitt went
forward.

Meanwhile, investment analysts at Merrill Lynch were rewarded for
recommending stocks they considered "junk" to unwary investors. That
conflict of interest was a direct result of the repeal of the
Glass-Stegall Act, which had separated commercial and investment banking
since the 1930s.

Or consider Enron itself. Its business plan was a political plan, to
free itself of regulation and oversight. The Gramms -- Wendy as head of
the Commodity Futures Trading Commission under Bush I and Senator Phil
-- played a major role in exempting Enron's trading in energy futures
and derivatives from federal regulation. Wendy Gramm then got a
lucrative position on the Enron Board.

President Bush wants to pose as tough on crime now, but he came to
office tailoring his rhetoric and administration to fit Reagan's
pattern. He campaigned against the "excessive regulation" of the Clinton
years. He appointed the accountants' lobbyist, Harvey Pitt, to head a
"kinder and gentler" SEC. His first SEC budget proposed eliminating 57
staff positions, including 13 in the office of full disclosure and 12 in
the office charged with preventing fraud. His Treasury secretary
immediately shut down intergovernmental efforts to monitor the offshore
corporate tax havens at the heart of Enron's financial maneuvers. And
the president still opposes reforms to curb the executive stock options
that allowed CEOs to plunder their own companies.

The new bubbleology must not distract from what really took place. Greed
and the desire to get rich quick are constant in capitalism. It isn't
the temptation to cheat that changes but the risk involved. What
laissez-faire, anti-government zealots did by trashing government,
cutting regulatory budgets and authority, and blocking needed reforms
was to weaken the cop on the beat.

Markets require rules. We have to do more than lock up a few corrupt
corporate executives. We have to clean out the misguided conservative
politicians who helped create the conditions in which the corrupt could
thrive.
--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Tempest
2004-01-04 20:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
CLINTON'S PENIS! CLINTON'S PENIS!

Fuckwad.


Criminal Negligence

by Peter Beinart

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020722&s=trb072202

Lots of arguments are wrong; fewer are absurdly wrong. But the absurd
ones are sometimes the most revealing. By stretching facts and logic
past the breaking point, they lay bare the ideological assumptions that
more plausible assertions often disguise.

So it is with the right's suggestion that Bill Clinton is to blame for
today's corporate scandals. "If you're looking for someone who set the
moral tone for the decade of the '90s, I don't think you have to look
any further than the former president's behavior," explained House Ways
and Means Chairman Bill Thomas on CNN late last month. "It's impossible
to understand Enron," editorialized The Wall Street Journal, "outside
the moral climate in which it flourished ... the Clinton years, when we
learned that 'everybody does it.'" Or, as Steve Forbes put it recently,
"If you want to look at the tone of the '90s, it started right at the
top, at the White House, where the attitude was anything goes."

Yes, that's right: Respected conservatives are actually suggesting that
Enron and WorldCom cooked their books because Bill Clinton lied about a
blow job. It's not an argument that takes a lot of deep thinking to
rebut. First of all, corporate fraud wasn't invented on Clinton's watch.
The United States endured a wave of financial scandals in the late '80s
as well, at the end of the last Wall Street boom. When Ivan Boesky was
arrested for insider trading, Michael Milken was busted for market
manipulation, Charles Keating was running a fraudulent savings and loan,
and Gordon Gekko was declaring that "greed ... is good," Bill Clinton
was an obscure Southern governor, and the man setting the moral tone "at
the top" was Ronald Reagan. Maybe Boesky and Milken lost their moral
bearings because the Gipper was a divorc_ who neglected his children.

Second, Republican-leaning CEOs aren't exactly the demographic group
most likely to take their moral guidance from Bill Clinton. And among
those constituencies that did see Clinton as a role model--for instance,
the African American poor--the '90s were a period of remarkable moral
advance. From 1991 to 2000, while our "first black president" inhabited
the Oval Office, teen pregnancy dropped 22 percent. Between 1993 and
1999, the crime rate dropped by roughly the same amount, and the welfare
rolls declined 49 percent. Divorce, teen drinking, teen suicide, and
abortion also grew more rare. As the magazine of the conservative
American Enterprise Institute put it in 1999, "The alarm bells rung by
cultural conservatives seem to have been heeded by many Americans, and a
new pattern of recovery and even reversal has emerged." Does The Wall
Street Journal hold Bill Clinton responsible for that as well?

...
...
...

And it is the legal structure governing corporate America that has
produced the bad behavior we are learning about today. During the '90s,
accounting firms realized they could boost profits by consulting for the
companies they audited. And because the government never stepped in to
prevent this mounting conflict of interest, accounting firms like Arthur
Andersen developed a strong incentive to overlook fraudulent
bookkeeping. Was every auditor equally willing to turn a blind eye? Of
course not--just as not every welfare mother was equally willing to
receive a check for sitting at home. But the overall structure created a
corrupting pressure. And so it is not surprising that in the late
'90s, as the accounting industry was publishing a handbook titled Make
Audits Pay: Leveraging the Audit Into Consulting Services, the number of
audited companies subsequently forced to restate their earnings was
rising year after year.

Similarly, the penalties for corporate fraud were diminishing. In 1995
Newt Gingrich and the newly elected Republican Congress--having vowed to
restrict lawsuits in the Contract with America--pushed through a bill
making it much harder to sue companies for misleading their investors.
And that same year the House and Senate froze the budget of the
Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), even though the agency (as the
General Accounting Office would later find) already lacked the staff to
adequately monitor corporate balance sheets. As David Ruder, a
former Republican head of the SEC, told The New York Times in 1995, "The
Republican Congress is dealing with the SEC as though it is the enemy,
instead of the policeman on the beat." And, as conservatives often
remind liberals, when you undermine the policeman on the beat, crime
goes up.

Which brings us back to Bill Clinton. If conservatives are serious about
blaming him for Enron and WorldCom, they should focus not on Monica
Lewinsky but on the decline in white-collar law enforcement that
occurred on his watch. But, if they do, they'll notice that Clinton
vetoed the 1995 bill that shielded corporate executives from shareholder
lawsuits, and his SEC chief, Arthur Levitt, proposed barring accounting
firms from consulting for firms they were simultaneously auditing.
Unfortunately, Clinton's veto was overridden-a slight majority of
Democrats voted to uphold it, but virtually every congressional
Republican voted to override. Levitt's proposal was torpedoed as well.
By my count, 33 of the 37 members of Congress who signed public letters
protesting his reform were Republicans. And the lobbyist who spearheaded
the accounting industry's campaign against the Levitt proposal was none
other than Harvey Pitt, President Bush's pick to head the SEC. In other
words, the '90s moral tone that made Enron and WorldCom possible wasn't
Clintonism; it was Gingrichism. And that's one moral tone George
W. Bush hasn't changed at all.
--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Tempest
2004-01-04 20:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
I already did check it out, Ms. Coulter. Unemployment is UP, way
UP. Why don't you mention that in your talking points? Those not in
the labor
force
Post by Dan
have increased - do you think these people suddenly stoped needing
money?
Post by HOD
Post by Dan
No, there aren't any jobs for them. Economists say the economy must
add 150,000 jobs each month just to keep up with the growing
workforce. So
let's
Post by Dan
see, less than 3 million more in Total employment since he took office,
yet
Post by Dan
150,000 * 35 months is 5.4 million. That's a difference of 2.4 million
jobs
Post by Dan
that he's behind, just to keep up with the growing workforce. Selective
use
Post by Dan
of data to try to prove your point, more dirty tricks from the neoCON
bag
Post by HOD
of
Post by Dan
tricks.
I guess some silly liberal; might look at it that way but the
historical data records it this way;
Unemployment rate August 2001: 4.9% (the month before your
buddies attacked New York)
Unemployment rate December 2001: 5.8% (3-months after your cousins
attacked New Yotk)
Unemployment rate November 2003: 5.9% (that was month before last,
Gomer)
Post by HOD
Now if I lived under the liberal rules in use on this NG.... that
says if you don't like the actual facts, just make up something that
you do like,
I
Post by HOD
would simply state that had 9/11 not happened we would be well ahead
of
even
Post by HOD
the most aggressive projections. Now who can prove that wrong?...
that's
the
Post by HOD
liberal way! The fact that our President has been able to provide
jobs
for
Post by HOD
almost 3 million more people while fighting terrorism single-handed
on multiple fronts is just short of a miracle and proves him to be a
genius. Not to mention that currently we are enjoying the greatest
economic boom
in
Post by HOD
20 years!.... Hmmmmmm, 20 years would include all of Clinton's
cigar-humping
Post by HOD
years, would it not.... I don't recall a 9/11 incident on his romp or
anything with nearly that kind of negative economic impact...... no
but I
do
Post by HOD
recall him setting in motion the acts that resulted in 9/11!.... now
I'm sure you believe that Dean can do better, or maybe one of the
other nine dwarfs..... shit you probably think that you could handle
the job.... but most folks over the age of 18 believe that the man in
office is doing a
fine
Post by HOD
job.... the fact that you disagree doesn't really matter much to
successful
Post by HOD
smart conservatives!
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the
telecomm meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other
companies to lay off by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And
under whose watch did Worldcomm rise to power and fudge their numbers?
You got it. Clinton.
CLINTON'S PENIS! CLINTON'S PENIS!

Fuckwad.


Had he been successful, President Clinton would have brought the
following reforms:

1) Stopping Auditor-Consulting Conflicts by Accountants

In 2000, Clinton Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Arthur Levitt,
Jr. proposed regulations to prohibit accounting firms from
simultaneously serving as consultants and auditors. Arthur Andersen and
other accounting firms mounted a massive lobbying campaign against the
Clinton-Levitt regulations, killing them. *The lead lobbyist for the
accounting firms was Harvey Pitt. After being sworn in as President,
George W. Bush named Pitt chair of the Securities and Exchange
Commission. *

2) Greater Disclosure of Energy Derivatives

In 1997, Bill Clintons Commodities Futures Trading Commission Chair
Brooksley Born proposed greater regulation (by way of more stringent
disclosure) of energy derivatives, the key financial instrument in
Enron's Ponzi-scheme empire. Her proposal was beaten back by House
Republicans, including then-House Banking Committee Chair Jim Leach
(R-IA) who scolded her for two hours at a hearing.

3) Oversight of Energy Traders

In 2000, William Rainier, Born's successor as chairman of the Commodity
Futures Trading Commission, told Congress that he was "deeply concerned"
about a bill to exempt energy trading from CFTC review, noting that
those who trade energy derivatives were not subject to any other
oversight. Rainer's objections were largely ignored by the
Republican-controlled Congress, and the exemption, heavily backed by
Enron, became law.

4) Cracking Down on Tax Havens

In 2000, Clinton Treasury Secretary Larry Summers proposed a crackdown
on tax havens such as those used by Enron. With the US co-chairing the
OECD's Forum on Harmful Tax Practices, Summers crusaded for a crackdown
on money-laundering and tax havens. His proposal was opposed by the GOP
Congress. When the Bush Administration took office, Treasury Secretary
Paul O'Neill abandoned Summers' crusade, telling the Wall Street
Journal, "The government has not been respectful of the cost it imposes
on society." The New York Times reported that Bush's top economic
adviser, Lawrence Lindsey (a former economic adviser to Enron) also
opposed efforts to crack down ontax havens.

5) Protecting 401(k)s

In 1997: Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) proposed banning investment of more
than 10 percent of the total 401(k) plan in the employer's stock--the
maximum that investment experts recommend a person sink into any
company. The GOP Senate watered down her bill so much it no longer
applied to any corporation in America;

6) Protecting Investors and Shareholders

On December 20, 1995, President Clinton vetoed the Public Securities
Litigation Reform Act, which would have restricted lawsuits against
corporation accused of securities fraud. In his veto message, Clinton
presciently noted that while he supported the notion of reducing
frivolous lawsuits: "I am not, however, willing to sign legislation that
will have the effect of closing the courthouse door on investors who
have legitimate claims. Those who are the victims of fraud should have
recourse in our courts. Our markets are as strong and effective as they
are because they operate -- and are seen to operate -- with integrity. I
believe that this bill, as modified in conference, could erode this
crucial basis of our markets' strength." The GOP Congress overrode
Clinton's veto.

Wendy Gramm, wife of Texas Republican Senator Phil Gramm also aided
Enron's rise to power. As the lame-duck chairwoman of the Commodity
Futures Trading Commission, she pushed through a key regulatory
exemption on Jan. 14, 1993, six days before Clinton took office. Five
weeks later, she joined Enron's board of directors.

The exemption was passed over the objection of the Clinton
administration.
--
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Mr. N
2004-01-04 01:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And under whose watch did Worldcomm
rise to power and fudge their numbers? You got it. Clinton.
And under whose watch did Worldcomm not only walk away scott-free, but
subsequently get awarded a multimillion dollar contract in Iraq?

You got it.
--
-My Real Name
HOD
2004-01-04 03:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by GENOMEMAN
by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And under whose watch did
Worldcomm
Post by GENOMEMAN
rise to power and fudge their numbers? You got it. Clinton.
And under whose watch did Worldcomm not only walk away scott-free,
Boy you can't tell the truth can you?.. scott-free huh?

Worldcomm Receives Record Fine!
It is the largest fine ever imposed by the US financial watchdog, the
Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC).
Post by GENOMEMAN
but subsequently get awarded a multimillion dollar contract in Iraq?
It figures that you would rather see them in chapter 7... completely shut
down and all employess without work. That's the way a liberal is supposed to
think.... bet the comrades are proud of you!
Post by GENOMEMAN
You got it.
yea, but you don't!
GENOMEMAN
2004-01-04 03:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by HOD
Post by GENOMEMAN
Post by GENOMEMAN
by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And under whose watch did
Worldcomm
Post by GENOMEMAN
rise to power and fudge their numbers? You got it. Clinton.
And under whose watch did Worldcomm not only walk away scott-free,
Boy you can't tell the truth can you?.. scott-free huh?
Worldcomm Receives Record Fine!
It is the largest fine ever imposed by the US financial watchdog, the
Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC).
Post by GENOMEMAN
but subsequently get awarded a multimillion dollar contract in Iraq?
It figures that you would rather see them in chapter 7... completely shut
down and all employess without work. That's the way a liberal is supposed to
think.... bet the comrades are proud of you!
Excellent point. The stupid fat liberal would rather see the entire company
go down, more jobs lost, added to the unemployment payrolls, and then they
could say, "See! See! Bush made them lose all those jobs!"
Post by HOD
Post by GENOMEMAN
You got it.
yea, but you don't!
Hugh Gibbons
2004-01-05 03:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by GENOMEMAN
9.11 definitely hurt the economy. But what REALLY hurt it was the telecomm
meltdown. Worldcomm faking the numbers, causing other companies to lay off
by the tens of thousands (Sprint, AT/T). And under whose watch did Worldcomm
rise to power and fudge their numbers? You got it. Clinton.
It's plain idiocy to blame Clinton, or any politician for the telecom
meltdown. The telecoms melted down (on a business basis) because too
many competitors were chasing too few customers. It was impossible for
most of them to make a profit just due to competition. The stock value
meltdown was caused by the lag between the business conditions I just
talked about appearing and the market to wise up that the telecom
companies had assets of diminishing value: equipment that was decreasing
in price rapidly and was already overbuilt and customer bases of
diminishing value as people found cheaper ways to communicate.

The ONLY way to prevent the meltdown would have been for the government
to regulate the market and stymy competition so that the customers could
get thoroughly screwed, as it was in the old days.
Loading...