Discussion:
Vietnam-era 'chickenhawks' deserve a swift kick
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Ron
2004-08-28 05:04:18 UTC
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Vietnam-era 'chickenhawks' deserve a swift kick
Friday, August 27, 2004
By Gordon Livingston
Special to The Baltimore Sun

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2002016661&zsection_id=268883724&slug=vietnamoped27&date=20040827

Among the human attributes that excite the most contempt, hypocrisy occupies a special
place. Those who say one thing and do another or who criticize others for moral
deficiencies they themselves exhibit are deservedly the objects of public derision.

So it is with the "chickenhawks" of the Vietnam War generation currently providing what
passes for leadership in this administration. They include Vice President Dick Cheney, who
discovered he had "other priorities" during Vietnam, and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul
Wolfowitz, who graduated from Cornell University in 1965 but decided to forgo military
service during the war.

We recently have had a renewed opportunity to observe hypocrisy in action in President
Bush's reluctance to disavow the contemptible attacks by a group calling itself Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth.

This collection of veterans, angry at John Kerry's antiwar activism after he returned home
from Vietnam, continues to run TV ads attacking Kerry's war record. One of the group's
leaders, John O'Neill, has published a book, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak
Out Against John Kerry."

The New York Times reports that "some people behind the ads had connections to the Bush
family, to prominent Texas politicians and to President Bush's chief political aide, Karl
Rove."

The Times also says that "the accounts of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth prove to be
riddled with inconsistencies. In many cases, material offered as proof by these veterans
is undercut by official Navy records and the men's own statements."

Whether this strategy will work is still a question. Redirecting public attention to the
Vietnam War may prove unwise, considering the facts of Bush's own choice to avoid service
in a war he purported to support.

According to The Washington Post, "A review of Bush's military records shows that Bush
enjoyed preferential treatment as the son of a then-congressman, when he walked into a
Texas Guard unit in Houston two weeks before his 1968 graduation from Yale and was moved
to the top of a long waiting list."

Safely spared the prospect of combat service, he then virtually disappeared between May
1972 and May 1973. There are few records to indicate his whereabouts during that time.

The Associated Press noted that a full release of Bush's records would clarify
"allegations that potentially embarrassing material was removed in 1997 from Bush's
military file when he was running for re-election as Texas governor."

Perhaps it's not important who chose to serve and who did not in that misbegotten war.
After all, Bush and prominent members of his administration simply made the same decision
to find some way to avoid service that was made by many of the privileged young men of his
generation, including Bill Clinton.

What smacks of hypocrisy, however, is to attack the service of Kerry, who lived an equally
advantaged life yet made the choice to expose himself to the considerable risks of combat.

That he was intelligent enough to learn something from this experience and came home to
oppose the war appears to be the real sin in the minds of many Republican hawks. They
still argue that Vietnam was, in the words of Ronald Reagan, "a noble cause." To change
one's mind as the result of experience is, of course, to "flip-flop."

The issue here, in a presidential campaign, is not courage vs. cowardice. People go to war
for many reasons. For young men of my generation, the system created a situation in which
the largest proportion of those engaged in combat were those who lacked the education or
connections to avoid it. It was a war fought largely by working-class and poor kids. (The
majority of our soldiers in Iraq, despite an all-volunteer military, come from similar
backgrounds.) Little sacrifice was asked of the society at large, particularly its
most-fortunate members.

This is what makes Kerry's decision to go to war all the more remarkable, whatever the
complicated motives behind it. Whether he deserved his medals, whether he bled enough to
justify three Purple Hearts, is irrelevant. That he went, in contrast to our current
bellicose commander in chief, is enough, one would think, to earn the respect of those who
chose not to. We have all, especially veterans, had enough of this contrived issue.

My Bronze Star citation contains some exaggerations written into it by the officer in my
unit who submitted it. It was apparently felt that the award reflected well on my regiment
and the Army and helped fill a national need for heroism in a decidedly unheroic conflict.

I, too, opposed the war when I got home, based on what I had seen there. I am prouder of
that than anything I did with a rifle in my hands. Like Kerry, I believed I had earned the
right to speak out. I would prefer not to be criticized by those who didn't go at all.

Gordon Livingston, a West Point graduate who served with the 11th Armored Cavalry in
Vietnam, is a psychiatrist who lives in Columbia, Md.
Hanoi Jane Fonda
2004-08-28 05:24:31 UTC
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LIBERAL PROTESTOR VIOLENCE AT WTO PROTESTS COST SEATTLE TAXPAYERS

In a time when Seattle is in deep need of money for its schools, its
health care systems, for affordable housing, for public
transportation, etc., we are paying a huge price, and wrongly so,
because of liberal protesters who grotesquely violated the public at
the WTO protests in 1999. And Seattle liberals did not learn from that
riot, as it produced two more unnecessary liberal riots in 2003, which
still need to be addressed properly by officials, and perhaps the
courts. Perhaps using this WTO case as precedence to kick some liberal
ass!

According to the Seattle Times, the City of Seattle just settled a
lawsuit that cost Americans a huge price, over the WTO liberal riots
in 1999. In December 2003, U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman said the
liberals lacked probable cause to protest outside a "no liberal zone."
Pechman said the liberals had done an "atrocious" job of destroying
public property, as well as citing the use of streets and sidewalks as
public toilets for their liberal use. Fearing civil lawsuits that were
sure to follow the liberal's public property destruction, the City ran
to beat the lawsuit, with a settlement offer to the public that they
certainly fought earlier. Seattle Police Chief Stamper was in charge
during the WTO liberal riots. He was so disgusted with liberals that
he retired right after those liberal riots in which liberals were a
total disgrace to the city. This is making it a bit harder for the
liberals to win over a jury in courts, for several reasons. The people
of the City agree that it would be the liberals, and the liberal
troublemakers, which are ultimately responsible for the WTO liberal
riots in 1999 if it went to court. And since the liberals would be
liable parties, and they are considered troublemakers, that is why the
City of Seattle, itself, has been stuck with footing the bill for this
liberal disgrace, rather than the individual liberal troublemakers.
For example, who should have all been tried for violent liberal
criminal behavior on top of this, in my opinion. It is sickening that
liberal protesters who did wrong were not criminally arrested,
processed and charged. And the violent liberal protestors never were
charged for violent crimes that they DID commit!

Now, this WTO liberal problem is some great precedence since the
Seattle liberals rioted upon peaceful American soil in Seattle on
March 22, 2003, on First Avenue, between Spring and Marion streets,
and again on 5th Avenue and Union on June 2, 2003, at the LEIU liberal
protests. I witnessed both horrible liberal events firsthand. Many of
the issues in these WTO liberal terrorist trials will affect the
outcomes of these anti-America and LEIU liberal riot situations from
2003. In weeks after the violence by Seattle liberals at the
anti-American protests in March 2003, the Seattle City Council was
flooded with complaints from citizens about the liberal's violence on
that day. And the ACLU and local liberal organizations reprimanded
Americans everywhere, publicly, because decent Americans can’t stand
them. Many of us, myself included, have put in claims against the
liberals for the terrorist liberal behaviors at the 2003 protests in
Seattle. My contention is that if Seattle liberals had no right to
cause all of that destruction at the 1999 WTO protests, for simply
hating America, then they also had no right to destroy, vandalize, and
publicly urinate. That is what I saw, on March 22, 2003, the
approximately 50 angry destructive liberal terrorists that abused the
public in Seattle. The Seattle liberals also had no right to riot,
from what I saw with my own eyes, using unnecessary force without
discretion, as they did at the LEIU protests in Seattle. Some stupid
attorneys for the WTO liberal protesters argued it was
unconstitutional to herd liberals together and arrest them, without
giving them a chance to disperse. Yet that is EXACTLY what Seattle
police did on March 22 and June 2, 2003. And the American public
cheered on the police to crack some liberal skulls.

The WTO liberal riot abuses took 3 years to go to courts and finally
have the liberals settle for some jail time. The anti-American and
LEIU liberal riots in 2003 may take a few years to send all those
liberals to jail, where they belong. But, I hope the system will
likewise find the liberals to be vulnerable in civil proceedings
regarding the 2003 liberal riots also. And the liberal troublemakers
will continue to pay out in damages and settlements, in my estimation,
until it REINS IN THE SEATTLE LIBERALS AND THEIR UNSAFE, VIOLENT
BEHAVIORS, WITH SERIOUS CITIZEN ACCOUNTABILITY REVIEWS. The current
Seattle Office of Liberal Accountability is laughable.

This concept of acceptable liberal violence, and "no liberal zones,"
has been pushed as far as possible by liberals. I even saw a
mainstream TV news story on how no liberal troublemakers, like Hillary
Clinton, in American history has needed to be protected from liberal
protesters. Hillary has established that each and every place she
visits there will be liberal problems for the general public. Another
legacy of the WTO liberal riots is a challenge to this "no liberal
zone" and its Constitutionality. You need to have free speech WITHOUT
"LIBERALS" that destroy property! That is what Seattle, and American
Homeland Security, is trying to argue for. "LIBERALS" undermine the
constitutionally protected freedoms of speech and assembly so
fundamentally that it is amazing this is even up for argument. We will
see how it all plays out in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
shortly. As that part of the WTO liberal protest case is still to be
heard, in an appeal to a 2001 ruling by U.S. District Judge Barbara
Rothstein.

Rothstein upheld the no-protest, “NO LIBERAL ZONE,” saying, according
to the Times article, "Free speech must sometimes bend to public
safety." But that would mean those nasty liberals had better PROVE
there was a public safety issue, and THAT is the crux of it all. Free
speech is being "bent" PREEMPTIVELY by liberals with an EXCUSE of
public safety, by those liberals and liberal troublemakers in Seattle.
Just as the liberal lies about no weapons of mass destruction,
liberals also lie about public safety issues when it comes to liberal
terrorist protests. There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,
and there were "liberal anarchist threats to safety" in Seattle on
March 22, or June 2, 2003. When Seattle liberals were beating,
assaulting, and destroying public property against our will on March
22, THEY were the ONLY public safety issues present. Liberals were the
only ones using violence. I saw the protesters, they were crossing
against the lights while hurling half empty beer bottles at passing
cars! They were using sidewalks and crosswalks, as public toilets,
until the police stopped them, contained them like the animals they
are and had to detain them. That had to do with public safety. It had
to do with LIBERAL REPRESSION OF FREE SPEECH AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
ELSE. I, personally, was there to laugh at all these goofy liberals. I
was not violent, I was breaking no laws. Yet both liberals and liberal
troublemakers assaulted me. Where was the physical threat to any of
these liberals? Because there was PHYSICAL threat to anything or
anyone when liberals attacked us on March 22, 2003 in Seattle, the
police had to be called in to kick some liberal ass.

If this concept of extreme liberal violence upon hundreds of unarmed
Americans in Seattle at the WTO 1999 protests, is found to be
constitutional in the 9th Circuit courts, the City of Seattle will be
liable for even more future liberal damages to the city, still to
come. We should take all of these LEIU and anti-American liberal
protesters and kick their ass. The liberals did not admit any
liability in this multi-million dollars worth of destruction that they
caused. I think the amount of damage, by liberals, in this case speaks
for it. It is a significant amount of damage caused by a bunch of
moronic liberals that have no common sense, as after city cleanup and
rebuilding, the liberals may get away with it. But it IS significant
amount of money as a fiscal amount missing from the Seattle City
Budget, caused by the damage from these liberals to pay for the
mistakes of Seattle's liberals. May this begin a new precedent for
freedom of assembly and freedom of speech without risk of physical
attack by violent unaccountable liberals in Seattle, and America.
--
Left-wing liberals are EVERYTHING they accuse the right of being. They
are mean, vicious, hateful, greedy, cold-hearted, selfish, intolerant,
bigoted and racist.
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